8 reasons not to get disc brakes — find out the hassles before you switch

BTBS

My point of mentioning what I have with respect to the frame is that there are frames still out there to be had that don't need discs, can and do take wider tyres than many so called 'gravel' bikes AND importantly can take standard racks and guards so are multi function without the need for speciality accessories that readers here have mentioned frequently when trying to get bits to fit/work on 'modern' disc frames.

I'm trying to get to a bike with wider tyres and rim brakes, like a J.Ack. Can you tell me which caliper brakes work over wider tyres operated from a drop bar? Or is it back to cantis or v-brakes?

Thanks for any help.

For the majority of cyclists it's all academic and they don't care as long as they stop... I don't ever remember my Deore cantilever brakes being that bad on my early 90's mountain bike...I thought v brakes were too grabby and lacked modulation when they came in...I now have Shimano (cable - shock horror!) discs on my bike - they're absolutely fine for the varied range of riding I do amd I don't have a clue what size the rotors are! I think people are all too content to follow the line that x is better or worse than y - but not always based on direct experience...

Why do disc brakes have rotors? What does the word 'disc' refer to? Surely disc brakes would have brake discs and brake calipers, so if the rotating surface is called a rotor, surely they should be called rotor brakes, which would have brake rotors and brake calipers?

Sad to say, I think the car world has it right. In the day when I had a car with disc brakes, as part of an upgrade I swapped out the standard part for some cross-drilled brake discs.

Hit me with your put-downs...

This thread just gets better!

.. and where did 'seatbelts' come from? 

I just feel sorry for anyone 'new' coming on here looking for some genuine impartial advice and guidance!!

Having been on trips to Tenerife, with the long fast descents, I've only heard the riders with carbon wheels worry about the braking performance in the dry. The alloy rim and disc brake riders are happy, until it gets wet then disc brake riders are the only ones happy.

Looking for a new bike it seems I have to have disc brakes if I want wider tyres. In looking into the arguments for and against ( on top of everything in this thread) I thought this article was interesting.

https://www.honeybikes.com/blog/2018/3/25/disc-brake-vs-rim-brake-perfor...

Kinesis CX1 will take rim brakes, wide tyres and fits the bill for gravel/CX.

Kinesis 4Seasons also takes long drop brakes and would fit a 30mm wide tyre.

Van Nicholas Amazon CX or touring would take rim brakes and decent width tyres but is pricey!

Gunnar Crosshairs is like a steel version of the CX1, would love one but don't really buy into steel for steel's sake any more and would probably be the wrong side of £1500 by the time you got it imported from the states.

Various CX frames still out there but they all err on the racier side of geometry.

As for me I'm just accepting the inevitable and trying to grow to love disc brakes with half an eye on the new Giant Revolt bikes. Am waiting for some wet weather (strange thing to say in Scotland) to try the latest hydraulics out on my commuter, but fully expect them to be just as noisy as the previous three sets...

If I can put my two penneth in. How I see it is if you want to have the ultimate setup, run carbon rims, use discs. If you are an average rider (like most of us actually are, besides what many want to believe) then good alloy wheels with rim brakes are actually more than capable. But hell, who gives a sh*# what anyone else is using as long as what you have works well enough for you. There’s certainly no point in arguing amongst ourselves about it. There is no right or wrong answer. 

Such a shame that these rim/disc threads always talk about braking. Its NEVER been about braking. Both systems stop bikes really well when correctly set up. No, disc brakes are all about wheels and tyres. The ability to design wide aero rims of any material, beyond the limitations of the rim brake and it's parallel braking tracks.

Such a shame that these rim/disc threads always talk about braking. Its NEVER been about braking. Both systems stop bikes really well when correctly set up. No, disc brakes are all about wheels and tyres. The ability to design wide aero rims of any material, beyond the limitations of the rim brake and it's parallel braking tracks.

Such a shame that these rim/disc threads always talk about braking. Its NEVER been about braking. Both systems stop bikes really well when correctly set up. No, disc brakes are all about wheels and tyres. The ability to design wide aero rims of any material, beyond the limitations of the rim brake and it's parallel braking tracks.

And here it is, article regurgitated again so the inevitable furthering of the rim vs disc argument.

Have what you want, but please stop the bullshit claims. Disc rotors last forever (a bloody long time at least!) and disc pads wear out - depending on matrix, some quicker than others. That’s the way you want it to be because pads are cheap, especially aftermarket such as Uberbike.

Cable disc operated brakes are variable in performance and require much more maintenance to keep them at their optimal. Hydraulic discs perform very well and once set up correctly are pretty much maintenance free apart from changing out warn pads and the occasional re-align, usually after said pad replacement.

Brake squeal with discs is usually caused by either contaminated pads, miss aligned calipers or very moist air on a cool day. I’ve got three disc equipped bikes and squeal is almost non existent.

You can overheat a disc brake with heavy/ constant braking. But it’s all a matter of mathematics and thermo dynamics. I prefer the look of 140mm discs on a road bike but found I cooked a six bolt mounted disc, using correct braking technique (hard and short to scrub speed before a bend, then off to turn and then continue the descent). The disc actually dished itself due to the heat. I got home after adjusting the caliper and not using the brake on the trip home.

After that I fitted centrelock Dura Ace Freeza discs which drop the temperature by about 100 degrees C. Problem solved. If I ever went to somewhere like the Alps or Pyrenees I would fit a 160mm to the front. Horses for courses.

The braking with discs cannot be faulted. I can brake harder and later with minimal effort, in the dry or in the wet. That is undeniable. I can get full braking from the hoods with just a finger or two. From the drops I don’t need any more than one finger to get full braking effort. Braking is instantaneous and strong and I can modulate it better. Fact. Better than rim brakes, of which I have 30+ years experience including Dura Ace and Super Record.

So, on to some of the other  ‘points’ that have been brought up in this and other threads. 

Rotor rub. Only occurs if the rotor is not straight, the caliper is not correctly adjusted or the caliper mounts aren’t  perfect. Just like any other parts, if they are not fitted/ set-up correctly they won’t work properly. Solution? Set them up correctly. This includes pushing the pads back out before bleeding them so that they sit in the correct position when ‘off’.

More complex maintenance. Not really, just different. Setting the caliper using one Allen key and two bolts is easy. Bleeding the system with the correct tools is again pretty easy - just like anything else, if you don’t know how to do it you will probably cock it up and they won’t work. Solution? Use the correct tools and learn how to bleed brakes properly. Even setting them up from scratch including cutting hoses, fitting olives and routing hoses is not really very hard, you just have to learn how to do it! So, regarding complexity for the average ‘user’ who has a bike with it all set up from the get go, well, maintenance is actually simple and no more complex than cable operated caliper brakes (fitting or changing pads, toeing them in, aligning them properly with the rim, adjusting the cable length to allow the correct free stroke and biting point etc etc). Plus of course as the pads wear down with a rim brake the lever pull will get closer and closer to the handlebar. With disc pad wear the caliper automatically adjusts for the wear.

Not necessary. Indesputable. Disc brakes are NOT necessary. Neither are electronic gears, 11 speeds (or even 12 speeds!) carbon frames, handbuilt wheels, ceramic bearings, aero handlebars, Garmin (or any other brand GPS’s) etc etc etc. This however, is not an argument against them. It just means that they aren’t necessary. End of. It does not mean they aren’t better, especially in marginal conditions etc etc. Saying tha roadies don’t ride when it rains, they go on their turbo, therefore this ‘benefit’ of discs is negated, is complete bollox. I ride my winter bike with disc brakes and full guards if I go out in the rain, or anticipate lots of rain during a ride, no matter what season it is. However, I have often been caught out in rainfall whilst out on my summer bike(s). My summer bikes get ridden in the rain. I would rather do that than sit on a turbo which is mind numbing.

Rim wear vs rotor wear. Rim brakes wear the rims of the respective wheel. Undeniable fact. Disc brakes wear the disc rotor. Undeniable fact. The rims of disc braked bikes get no wear from braking. Undeniable fact. Therefore, if you have expensive wheels, with expensive rims, rim brakes are going to shorten the life of these rims and they will need replacing when they reach their wear limit. This is even worse if you have clincher rims, which most roadies do as the braking surface is structurally integral to holding the tyre and its inflated pressure in. Fact.

Rotors last absolutely ages, especially if you change the pads before one wears out completely and causes ‘metal on metal’ contact and a horrible noise on braking. So, sure you can get cheap rotors, just as you can get cheap rims (aluminium), but factor in the cost of changing a rim, possibly the spokes as well and getting the wheel rebuilt and that starts to add up. All of a sudden those cheap aluminium rims don’t look such a bargain when it comes to ongoing maintenance. And if you ride a lot in the wet and crap this will come round more often as grit, grime and aluminium shards grind away your aluminium rims in winter/ wet conditions. Cables will periodically need replacing as they corrode/ gum up/ fray etc. Hydraulic hoses will only really need changing if they get damaged as they don’t really degrade in the same way.

Aerodynamics and weight. Firstly, how much difference do you really think either of those make to your average roadie who rides, stops at junctions and waits for his mates (or catches them up), has a cafe stop, could lose a few kilograms off his midriff etc? It’s negligible. Sure a complete disc brake  package weights a bit more than a rim brake setup, but seriously, enough to make a discernible difference? And aerodynamics? Really? As part of a full on aero package maybe there is a call for rim over disc brakes, but to the average roadie? Nah, bollox. It’s indiscernible.

Looks. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some think a road bike should look traditional with rim brakes. Fine, good for them. Others care more for function over form. Fine. And others think disc brakes look better! Fine. Whatever. Still not really an argument against the technology. Have what you want. It’s like the pathetic argument that an Italian bike must have Campagnolo. FFS, it’s just someone’s opinion. Have what the hell you want and fcuk what anyone else thinks!

Functionality. Some have commented about RS785 calipers leaking, which I’ve read before. I’ve had them on a bike for 4 years and never had an issue. Other have. So what? Some bits (not just brakes) aren’t perfect and some are better and more reliable than others. Fact. Doesn’t mean disc brakes are shit, or a faff, or less reliable. Flat mount has become the standard, post mount will gradually decline. If your RS785 calipers need replacing and you can’t find any on the market, simply fit a Shimano MTB post mount caliper such as Deore. They all work with road levers.

So, are rim brakes dead? No of course not. Horses for courses. Those who prefer them can have what they want, but the willy waving coming out with tripe about how they are better, how discs aren’t necessary, how people don’t ride carbon rims with rim brakes if it’s raining etc etc is all bollox. It’s all excuses for not wanting to accept that there is a better technology available now for road bikes. Just accept it and also be happy riding on your rim brakes and adjusting your riding style/ speed appropriately, we are all happy for you, but please, stop trying to denigrate road disc which is here to stay whether you like it or not. Embrace it, or don’t, others don’t care, but please, stop sprouting shite about it.

PP

I find it dificult to accept that discs are necessary, I don’t buy into the must have the latest tech, making cycling more expensive every time you upgrade. Pro racers don’t have to worry about the cost as the teams provide the bikes and new tech. I’ll stick to rim brakes on my road bikes. I do have discs front and back on my Kawasaki. I reverse bleed these every year when replacing DOT 5 brake fluid. Disc brakes are great for motorbikes. 

My custom Guru sub 4 kilos my cervelo is just about there as well “depending on the wheels I use . Simple  brake cabling. (  powercordz)  one chain ring  53 t and  a red 10 speed ( tuned out for light weight ) rear mech . No fuss easy peasy .both frames are naked carbon i mean naked  no clear coat just aero 303 for protection so no need to worry about scratches ,nothing to scratch . 

Disk brakes aero frames electronic shifting ,over complicated cables , batteries computers and plugged into the fucking matrix ,  ugly fucking frames that are painted like clowns ride them and riders who were team kit and special clothes that cost the earth and look ridiculous and think they are in sky or whatever they call themselves and check there gps navigation system to get a cup of coffee and spend two hours preparing them selves for a ride on a “fucking bike” 

i wear a tech shirt a pair of mbt shorts  , bonts on my feet. and a small bum bag I got at John Lewis and it’s small I can tell you for spare inner tube ( continental supersonic folds up tiny ) Allen key tool. credit card and mini pump and it’s mini I can tell you and phone sometimes ,   that’s it I’m ready and out the door . 

This set up I’ve used  all over the world  no problems . Life is has hard as you make it . 

So, I'm all for disks. But facts are facts. And in my case,  I wore out my disk brake rotors after about 3,000kms. I'm fairly heavy (~100kg) and I was doing a lot of elevation (about 100,000m worth in those 3,000kms), with some long, fast, at times rainy descents. But they were 180/160mmm Shimano SLX rotors, and I was using the bike almost exclusively on the road. And I was changing my (ceramic) pads every ~700-800kms. Meanwhile, my rim brake pads lasted around those same ~3,000kms on the same roads if usually slightly better kilometers. And the XT finned pads cost as much as the Swisstops. 

On the flip side, disk brake wheels should last virtually forever, and rotors aren't all that expensive next to nice wheels. But that's a much longer-term saving. 

Quote:

Brake squeal with discs is usually caused by either contaminated pads, miss aligned calipers or very moist air on a cool day.

Substitute 'moist air on a cool day' with 'riding whenever it's wet and not braking much' and you're pretty much spot on.

It should be up to the manufactures to develop a system that doesn't make so much noise in the wet rather than the consumer having to try all sorts of aftermarket stuff or adapting their riding to suit the brakes (I've been advised I should be pulling some hard stops on steep hills to heat up the brakes and burn off any contaminants, but my commute is too flat for that so I've just bought a blowtorch instead, can give the pads a good toasting whenever I remember, add that to the list of disc brake maintenance!).

Disc brakes all day long, what a load of rubbish this article is.

In my experience the worst thing about discs is the noise, and all the maintenance that entails. They can squeal like pigs, especially in the wet, and you need to be a master of the black arts to silence them.

Re Brake Rub - why are brand new rotors never flat/true.  New rotors = 30 minutes with a rotor tool. I suppose the extra clearance on a MTB means an untrue rotor is less of an issue.

Re Brake Rub - why are brand new rotors never flat/true.  New rotors = 30 minutes with a rotor tool. I suppose the extra clearance on a MTB means an untrue rotor is less of an issue.

Re Brake Rub - why are brand new rotors never flat/true.  New rotors = 30 minutes with a rotor tool. I suppose the extra clearance on a MTB means an untrue rotor is less of an issue.

My 6-bolt XT rotors developed a little wobble after bedding in. I did 20 or so gard almost-stops on a local hill to bed the pads in and voila! wobbly rotor.

It was only minor thankfully.

My fun but filthy commute destroyed my very precious set of 26 inch rim brake Mavic xc717 rimmed wheels in 11 months.  It had been very wet and muddy, even during that summer.  I had one rim left (I had brought 3 from SJS) and the mechanic at my LBS managed to find a built wheel on a german web site so had the LBS make me up a matching wheel.  Thankfully the last winter was relatively dry and the new wheels survived.  I have now mostly retired that wonderful bike and built up my new ultimate commuter.  She has disk brakes.

The rear squeaks a bit, which I hope might end if I change the pads for sintered ones for the upcoming winter, and a clean, and maybe some copperslip.  I do have true one finger braking, which has given me more control going down bumpy hills, and I can cover the brakes more because of this.  My ceramic rims with xtr Vs, nokon cables and brake booster, on the front, didn't quite give me that, let alone my quality early 90s cantis.

I like them, and I can run either wide  27.5 or slightly thinner 29 inch rims and tyres if I want.  And I would rather grind my disks away, which are also further away from the filth, than my aluminium rims.  And have more power.  I will soon have to buy lots m ore tools and learn new techniques.  Yeah.

I ride mtbs as a utility cyclist, using roads, and to get to the off road bits.  The disk thing was decided a long time ago for mtbs and it was just me running my retro bicycles that meant I hadn't had disks.  It was when Mavic stopped making the XC717 in rim brake form that meant I to get something new.  I have attempted to future proof my new one as much as possible.

Interesting discusson.

Being a 'commuter on a bicycle' I've no axe to grind here. All I care about is being able to stop, quickly and under control, in all weather conditions.  So it's disk brakes for me.

Coming from a solid mechanical - motorcycles and cars - background I can't understand all these comments along the lines of "disk brakes need constant maintenance and faffing". Why? Hydraulic disk brake systems are sealed and self-adjusting. The only maintenance needed is a pad change, which, on a bicycle or motorcycle, is a ten minute job. Fluid change? Once in a blue moon when it gets dirty. And it's true the larger the disk and greater the pad surface area the more stopping power under your fingers. Why do you think sports/heavy tourer motorcycles run huge twin front disks and 4 to 6 pot calipers?   

I'll give one concession to maintenance. Motorcycles ridden through several winters can have problems with piston seals forced hard against pistons causing them to seize. This happens because the (alloy) slot in which the seal sits is prone to salt corrosion which builds up over time  pushing the seal outwards. It's a can't be bothered to check/lack of knowledge thing, really. I recall one motorcycle I worked on, a Triumph Tiger, that the owner was very proud of and maintained himself. This bike has twin disks and two 4-pot calipers on the front and one disk and one 2-pot caliper on the rear. Out of the 10 pots just one, on the front, was unseized and working. Oh dear.    

The little plastic wedge that comes with the brakes from new usually has a little slot in it that is a no-go gauge. If it fits over the disc, it’s time to replace it. It was many years before I realised that.

Agreed, just measured mine after ~2,200 miles and the brake track is 0.04 mm (or 1.6 thou) thinner than the edge so I think I've got a many thousands of miles left on them!