IPod wearing cyclists identified as new road menace - head of AA calls for action!

There's not enough info out there it seems to make an informed judgment, as mentioned in the article, so I'd only vote if there was a don't know option.

However, instinctively, it feels wrong to me. I use my hearing when out training all the time, to gauge the distance, direction, speed, acceleration and type of vehicles that are out of my field of view.

I feel my ability to determine these things as a result of being a cyclist for a very long time gives me a safety advantage. When I lose this ability (e.g. high winds) I do feel I have less control over my situation, and that I am at more risk.

CTC's comment about deaf people being encouraged to cycle, therefore why not iPod users, is absurd logic, bordering on the dangerous. We all I am sure would encourage those with a mobility problem to cross the road, but why would you encourage someone who is able-bodied to voluntarily put themselves in a dangerous environment without all their faculties available to them?

I wouldn't for a moment discourage the deaf from cycling, but they have no choice with their hearing, and I am sure as a result take extra care (as they have to in other traffic situations), knowing they face a little more risk than a hearing person.

If the CTC think there is no issue with iPods they should come up with something facts-based to prove they are safe, not jump defensively to defend a cycling issue for the sake of it, without any serious facts at their disposal. I'd rather see the CTC putting out a holding position, and doing something to find out whether it is dangerous, like commissioning an independent study.

That said, I've been meaning to actually try cycling with an iPod myself, as an experiment, as I fancy the idea of cycling with music, and I was going to see if I felt any less safe when doing so. Provided you can still hear traffic (iPod at reasonable volume), can I still detect vehicles in the same way? The only thing that has stopped me, is a dodgy iPod, preventing me from getting my music onto the damn thing!

Of course there are other more important issues, there always are. Of course car drivers listen to music too, but they have mirrors, crumple zones and air bags, and I'd say they would also use their hearing a little (to a lesser extent than cyclists) - I do when driving. Of course you cannot rely 100% on sound to make decisions, but I'd personally rather have more info regarding what is going on around me than less, so I'll only use one if I can still use my hearing as I do now.

Oldridgeback - this all sounds like the reason I don't rely on sound, I think I'm impaired!

With a full face lid on, all I can hear is my breathing, which sends me insane...

Dasy - neither of my full face helmets (an Arai and a shoei) do much to block out sound. The MX helmet i have for BMX riding and occasional use on the motorbike has practically no sound damping effect at all. I have to wear earplugs for longer journeys when I know I'll be going over 60mph and this is recommended. I don't like having them in as it's uncomfortable and I notice that it doesn't help balance (inner ear pressures maybe), as well as reducing awareness.

for me this basically seems to boil down to, "people who are idiots are dangerous in traffic". be they texting car drivers, holier-than-thou red light jumpers and pavement riders, iPeds, whoever. The fact that they're wearing a iPod, texting, or whatever is just a symptom of the main problem: they're idiots. if they weren't doing that they'd be doing some other idiot thing. to quote Blackadder, "if we went around punishing people for being stupid, Nursie would have been in prison all her life"

I never wear my iPod while riding, it's as much to do with comfort as common sense. Sound is a useful tool in knowing what's coming but it shouldn't be relied on completely. Keeping your eyes open and looking round regularly and/or using a mirror is the best way to know what's all around you.

The problems of sound inside vehicles have been noted - drivers playing loud rock or rap music have a higher incidence of accidents and there is research on this (check the TRL website).

Motorcyclists are not protected from incoming sound by the way Dasy - dunno where you got that idea from.

I wouldn't ride through town with a music player but i deffo needed one in the Atacama desert

horses for courses i reckon, but the reason i took one on a big tour is precisely becasue it *is* distracting, and that's why i wouldn't use one on the commute.

Plus you may have some speed crazed chef silently approaching in a Tesla, so sound is not a good indicator that all is safe or otherwise.

For me, experience has taught me that my hearing is impaired by many environmental issues such as speed and wind conditions, so I cannot rely on it in all circumstances, so choose to not rely on it at all. I will always check over my shoulder if swinging around a pothole, changing lanes etc.

That said, I would never ride with an iPod, as the solitude and engagement with the ride is what I crave, I don't want to be taken back to my normal life by having a backing track. I love music in the car as it makes a dull job a little bit more entertaining though.

that's a good point Dasy, but i certainly know some serious mile munchers who commute and train all year round who are always plugged in to their iPods. I asked one of them about the noise masking effects once and he said that he just kept the thing turned down low - personally I'd find that even more distracting - good rider or not, if you can't hear what's coming up behind you you are at a disadvantage.

I suppose the counter argument is that if something is coming up behind you fast enough to do you harm, being able to hear it is unlikely to make much difference and that you should be looking behind anyway before you manouvre in to potential harm's way.

I do agree with Barry, cars and motorbikes are both isolated from outside noise, but they have good coverage of what is happening behind them via mirrors, so the same rules don't necessarily apply.

The problem is that you are preaching to the converted here, we are all serious enough about cycling that we frequent internet sites about it. So no doubt we cycle more and take the whole thing more seriously than many of these victims listed above. I wonder if iPod wearing is just more endemic amongst the more casual riders, and that it is in fact their inexperience that gets them into trouble rather than the iPod itself.

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OK, so is this suggesting that listening to sound systems whilst cocooned in a motor vehicle is also a 'menace'?

no, it isn't suggesting that - that's another argument if you want to have it. same for iPeds. two wrongs don't make a right anyway.

what it's suggesting is that if you choose to wear headphones then you're impairing your ability to judge the road because 1) music is distracting and 2) it masks other sounds you might want to hear. And i'd tend to agree, especially on the first call. DaSy's right: wind can mask sounds too. but you can't control that, and you can control your iPod.

Cyclists are always going on about how bikes are not the same as cars, and they're right. the same rules don't necessarily apply. but that rubs both ways

What I meant to say is that it is not OK for ME to wear an iPod as I get easily distracted

It can, of course, be completely different for other people.

I think the biggest danger regarding this is pedestrians listening to their ipods and not looking as they cross out into the road. Happens to me on a daily basis in Manchester.

Or how about the School Bus Driver who I saw this morning with a cup of coffee in one hand, steering and changing gears with the other, all whilst laughing and joking with the passenger at the front.

Or the woman on Stockport Road texting as she was driving erratically up it.

Or the boy racer who had his music that loud I couldn't hear anything but the rumble of his subwoofer.

OK, so is this suggesting that listening to sound systems whilst cocooned in a motor vehicle is also a 'menace'?

If so, why wasn't it mentioned in the article?

Or is this just another example of the usual mindless prejudice and hypocrisy that makes this country a laughing stock?

Or, perhaps, the unthinking reactionary mob that makes up the bulk of so-called "middle England" are getting so frustrated because they'd can't outwardly display their prejudices against those of a different religion or skin colour so they have to turn against those who choose a different mode of transport.

So often when I ride, it is into headwind which makes so much noise that you cannot hear anything else. Also riding at a reasonable speed (20mph plus), the wind noise drowns out the sound of cars.

I would never rely on sound to dictate whether to make a manoeuvre or not, and always rely completely on my vision.

Maybe being distracted by music could be an issue, but I don't think the inability to hear traffic is the problem.

I used to listen to my ipod whilst cycling but found myself getting into more scrapes and near misses than I liked too.

I removed them, and my cycling became alot safer and I was more aware of what was going on around me.

I also convinced another ipod wearing cyclist to drop it, and his confidence on the road has improved no end.