Budget: Osborne "squandering squillions on road schemes," says CTC

Nuclear Dan wrote:

All the motorcar hate really annoys me.

Here here.

I got used to the fact a long time ago that the vast maority of commenters are zealots that never ever use any form of mechanised transport, nor do they ever buy a product that has been delivered by said product.
They are all avid recyclers too as to produce garbage would mean it being collected by a pollution spewing machine, nor do they ever leave our fair isle as that too is almost impossible unless one contributes to fouling the atmosphere.

This site is a cycling site at first glance, but from reading comments here you would never know that as every article is picked apart in order to throw vitriol at any other road user than a cyclist, that often includes dog walkers and pedestrians too.

I don't have a car as I can no longer afford one, nor do I use public transport as I can't afford that in my town, so for daily stuff like a trip to the supermarket, I walk, an almost 10km round trip.
If it is for a single item, or a bike friendly load of course I ride.
And I do wish the provisions for cyclists here were better.

But, if I had a car, you can bet I'd use it...

(Sits back and waits for the flaming, which will be ignored with a wry smile)

Cumisky wrote:

Nuclear Dan wrote:

All the motorcar hate really annoys me.

Here here.

I got used to the fact a long time ago that the vast maority of commenters are zealots that never ever use any form of mechanised transport, nor do they ever buy a product that has been delivered by said product.
They are all avid recyclers too as to produce garbage would mean it being collected by a pollution spewing machine, nor do they ever leave our fair isle as that too is almost impossible unless one contributes to fouling the atmosphere.

This site is a cycling site at first glance, but from reading comments here you would never know that as every article is picked apart in order to throw vitriol at any other road user than a cyclist, that often includes dog walkers and pedestrians too.

I don't have a car as I can no longer afford one, nor do I use public transport as I can't afford that in my town, so for daily stuff like a trip to the supermarket, I walk, an almost 10km round trip.
If it is for a single item, or a bike friendly load of course I ride.
And I do wish the provisions for cyclists here were better.

But, if I had a car, you can bet I'd use it...

 

(Sits back and waits for the flaming, which will be ignored with a wry smile)

I'm you're typical raving anti-car cyclist - I've never learnt to drive (didn't have the money for it when younger and can't be bothered now) and get everywhere by bike or public transport (or if my wife drives me!).

The issue with the huge amount of money spent on road infrastructure is the ridiculous amount spent on cycling/other infrastructure which undoubtedly offers a better return on investment. Personally, I rarely use cycle paths as most are poorly designed and it's quicker for me to just use the roads (which is where I encounter the small percentage of motorised asshats - most motorists are reasonable people) so I can definitely see the benefit of investing in road infrastructure. The investment should follow some kind of cost/benefit analysis and that should mean more money for cycling/walking - at least £10 per person is a recommended figure.

What annoys me is the politicians claiming to be 'green' and talking lots about improving people's health by increasing cycle use, but their actions are completely opposite.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Cumisky wrote:

Nuclear Dan wrote:

All the motorcar hate really annoys me.

Here here.

I got used to the fact a long time ago that the vast maority of commenters are zealots that never ever use any form of mechanised transport, nor do they ever buy a product that has been delivered by said product.
They are all avid recyclers too as to produce garbage would mean it being collected by a pollution spewing machine, nor do they ever leave our fair isle as that too is almost impossible unless one contributes to fouling the atmosphere.

This site is a cycling site at first glance, but from reading comments here you would never know that as every article is picked apart in order to throw vitriol at any other road user than a cyclist, that often includes dog walkers and pedestrians too.

I don't have a car as I can no longer afford one, nor do I use public transport as I can't afford that in my town, so for daily stuff like a trip to the supermarket, I walk, an almost 10km round trip.
If it is for a single item, or a bike friendly load of course I ride.
And I do wish the provisions for cyclists here were better.

But, if I had a car, you can bet I'd use it...

 

(Sits back and waits for the flaming, which will be ignored with a wry smile)

I'm you're typical raving anti-car cyclist - I've never learnt to drive (didn't have the money for it when younger and can't be bothered now) and get everywhere by bike or public transport (or if my wife drives me!).

The issue with the huge amount of money spent on road infrastructure is the ridiculous amount spent on cycling/other infrastructure which undoubtedly offers a better return on investment. Personally, I rarely use cycle paths as most are poorly designed and it's quicker for me to just use the roads (which is where I encounter the small percentage of motorised asshats - most motorists are reasonable people) so I can definitely see the benefit of investing in road infrastructure. The investment should follow some kind of cost/benefit analysis and that should mean more money for cycling/walking - at least £10 per person is a recommended figure.

What annoys me is the politicians claiming to be 'green' and talking lots about improving people's health by increasing cycle use, but their actions are completely opposite.

Yes, but a real cost benefit analysis, taking proper account of the social costs of additional motoring, not just some fantastical pish counting all the benefits and completely ignoring most of the costs.

hawkinspeter wrote:

What annoys me is the politicians claiming to be 'green' and talking lots about improving people's health by increasing cycle use, but their actions are completely opposite.

In fairness to George Osborne, I don't think he's ever really claimed to be very green.

Cumisky wrote:

Nuclear Dan wrote:

All the motorcar hate really annoys me.

Here here.

I got used to the fact a long time ago that the vast maority of commenters are zealots that never ever use any form of mechanised transport, nor do they ever buy a product that has been delivered by said product.
They are all avid recyclers too as to produce garbage would mean it being collected by a pollution spewing machine, nor do they ever leave our fair isle as that too is almost impossible unless one contributes to fouling the atmosphere.

This site is a cycling site at first glance, but from reading comments here you would never know that as every article is picked apart in order to throw vitriol at any other road user than a cyclist, that often includes dog walkers and pedestrians too.

I don't have a car as I can no longer afford one, nor do I use public transport as I can't afford that in my town, so for daily stuff like a trip to the supermarket, I walk, an almost 10km round trip.
If it is for a single item, or a bike friendly load of course I ride.
And I do wish the provisions for cyclists here were better.

But, if I had a car, you can bet I'd use it...

 

(Sits back and waits for the flaming, which will be ignored with a wry smile)

You know, there's more to cycling than just the sporting aspect of it. I presume that it's just the latest sport cycling news that interests you? In which case, I suggest that you back off from the discussions about cycling as a mode of transport in the real world, m'kay...?

brooksby wrote:

You know, there's more to cycling than just the sporting aspect of it. I presume that it's just the latest sport cycling news that interests you? In which case, I suggest that you back off from the discussions about cycling as a mode of transport in the real world, m'kay...?

Except I have zero interest in sport, never have, never will.
I cycle to maintain a certain level of fitness on the advice of my doctor, being severely asthmatic it helps with my breathing, it also helps with my cardiovascular system and to maintain a healthy weight, all things I have been advised to keep on top of as there things killed both my parents at a young age.
I ride 50 miles a day, everyday, regardless of weather to do this.

So I suggest you back off, fool.

Cumisky wrote:

brooksby wrote:

You know, there's more to cycling than just the sporting aspect of it. I presume that it's just the latest sport cycling news that interests you? In which case, I suggest that you back off from the discussions about cycling as a mode of transport in the real world, m'kay...?

 

Except I have zero interest in sport, never have, never will.
I cycle to maintain a certain level of fitness on the advice of my doctor, being severely asthmatic it helps with my breathing, it also helps with my cardiovascular system and to maintain a healthy weight, all things I have been advised to keep on top of as there things killed both my parents at a young age.
I ride 50 miles a day, everyday, regardless of weather to do this.

So I suggest you back off, fool.

I thought you were ignoring the flaming... which you can't really object to if you set out to call anyone who expresses frustration at the car culture of this country a hypocrite because, you know, vans and planes and stuff.

Cumisky wrote:

brooksby wrote:

You know, there's more to cycling than just the sporting aspect of it. I presume that it's just the latest sport cycling news that interests you? In which case, I suggest that you back off from the discussions about cycling as a mode of transport in the real world, m'kay...?

Except I have zero interest in sport, never have, never will.
I cycle to maintain a certain level of fitness on the advice of my doctor, being severely asthmatic it helps with my breathing, it also helps with my cardiovascular system and to maintain a healthy weight, all things I have been advised to keep on top of as there things killed both my parents at a young age.
I ride 50 miles a day, everyday, regardless of weather to do this.

So I suggest you back off, fool.

"Fool"?  

OK, fair enough, it had seemed like a reasonable assumption that you were into the sport not the transport, and I now stand corrected.  However, please note that it wasn't I that resorted to childish name-calling.

I appreciate that you are riding then as a recreational pursuit and for health reasons - and you actually ride more miles per day than me - but cycling is used as a mode of transport by many people (tax paying people) and they don't all necessarily hate cars (myself included).  What they do see is a society and political - er - thing which is massively skewed toward the use of the motor vehicle.  What they think is that cutting back on that use might help toward the environment, toward health, toward cutting air pollution...

My household owns two cars but do not use my car unless I have no alternative (hierarchy of commuting: cycling, bus, car).  I even openly buy goods which are delivered to shops in motor vehicles.

Its not hypocrisy to then also think that the use of motor vehicles ought to be cut back to when there is no alternative, nor to complain that cycling receives the crumbs left over from all the real government spending.

Nuclear Dan wrote:

4: In most cases provision of road improvements have absolutely zero negative consequences for cyclists. So it's not a debate either cycling infrastructure or road improvements, both please.

Problem is cycle campaigners have realised even if you build good cycle paths no one is really interested in using them unless the road alternative is horrific. So they need to push the agenda to remove space for driving to 'encourage' people to cycle.  Spending on roads (even though the budget is all about motorway improvements) is competing against their hopes to force more people to cycle.

STATO]<p>[quote=Nuclear Dan wrote:

Problem is cycle campaigners have realised even if you build good cycle paths no one is really interested in using them unless the road alternative is horrific. So they need to push the agenda to remove space for driving to 'encourage' people to cycle.  Spending on roads (even though the budget is all about motorway improvements) is competing against their hopes to force more people to cycle.

 

Where are those good paths? I haven't seen one yet. Apparently there aren't the funds to be spent on them. Sustrans is even reduced to begging for charitable donations to cope with flooding.

Nuclear Dan wrote:

All the motorcar hate really annoys me.
SNIP
Advocate for cycling and cycling infrastructure but lay off the car hate.

Meh. Relax and enjoy your massive car infrastructure. You've got it good. A vast amount of money and space is expended on you. So please: keep the whining down. It's undignified when it's justified, but just disgusting when it's not.

severs1966 wrote:

But George WANTS the voters to all be unhealthy, so that the NHS will collapse and he can snip it into bits and sell them to his mates.

The NHS is already mostly privatised and on the brink of collapse. Most people are already unhealthy but the obesity crisis will only increase. Air quality is already so bad that London reached its defined limit within 7 days of this year.

severs1966 wrote:

How else can he arrange to pump public funds into their wallets?

He already has.

Wake up, you're already dead.

zanf wrote:

 The NHS is already mostly privatised ......

Like most people I treasure the NHS and firmly believe in the concept of most treatments being free at the point of delivery.  It is one of the great achievements of our society and we should be proud.

But, also like most people, I don't much care whether NHS employees are in public or private employment, or whether the laboratories are publicly or privately owned.  What I want is a service that is efficient, effective and offers good value for money.  

I have worked extensively in both the public and private spheres, both have their good and their bad characteristics and neither could claim to be the holy grail of operating practice.  But they each have a part to play in UK plc and we should beware of sneering, even obliquely, at the private sector.