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news
Team Sky Arc de TriompheLance Armstrong confession… Wiggins and Cav have their say (or don't)
Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins have both been in the spotlight after being asked their reactions to Lance Armstrong’s confession in doping to Oprah Winfrey, part one of which is due to be aired on Friday morning in the UK on, of all places, the Discovery Channel. It will also be streamed live.
Wiggins, speaking to Sky News from Team Sky’s training camp in Mallorca, Wiggins said that the team wasn’t too concerned because they were concentrating on the season ahead.
He went on: But you’ve seen the reaction to it the last few months and there’s a lot of angry people about that are taking their frustrations and venting their anger in all different directions.
“But they need that closure in their life because they've been battling for so long for this.
"It will be a great day for a lot of people and quite a sad day for the sport in some ways," he said of Armstrong’s reported confession.
"But I think it has been a sad couple of months for the sport in that sense,” he added. “The 90s are pretty much a write-off now."
While that decade had been blighted by doping with use of EPO widespread in the peloton well before the Festina scandal of 1998, Wiggins’ remarks provoked widespread criticism on Twitter.
Several users pointed out that the first of Armstrong’s seven Tour de France wins that he has now been stripped of only happened in the final year of the decade.
Wiggins himself has been elevated to third in the 2009 Tour de France after Armstrong was stripped of all results dating back to August 1998.
Twitter users also focused on comments that Wiggins made about Paul Kimmage, although his remarks about the Irish former pro cyclist turned journalist are not in an edited version of the interview posted to the Sky News website.
However, that segment was included in audio of the interview included in Irish radio station Newstalk.ie’s Off The Ball show.
Earlier this month, in an interview published in German on newspaper Frankurter Allgemeine's website, FAZ.net, Kimmage said: "I don't know anyone who could say that the last Tour de France was totally convincing. If you apply the same standards to Bradley Wiggins as to Lance Armstrong, there are alarming similarties."
He went on: "Look how their teams are dominant. There are four, five riders who ride very strongly for three weeks without a bad day. The question is, is that logical?'
Referring to that interview, Wiggins said yesterday: “We saw last week with Paul Kimmage with me and the team, he’s just eaten up with it, and I think to people like that it’s just going to mean a hell of a lot. What they do with their lives after he does admit it is anyone’s guess."
After playing the interview, the Irish radio show’s presenters criticised Wiggins for having singled out Kimmage and, in their words – not his, as has been said – describing him as “bitter.” They also said that given his status in the sport, Wiggins should be much more forthright about his views of Armstrong and should be hailing a great day for the sport.
“What it has to do with Paul Kimmage and how bitter Paul Kimmage is, is an eye-opener for me,” said one.
In a series of tweets today, Kimmage said: “Interesting that Bradley Wiggins is still following the Lance Armstrong blueprint for success:
"1 Ignore the message 2 Attack the messenger
“If I still had a job [he was made redundant by The Sunday Times a year ago tomorrow], I'd be camped outside the Sky training camp in Majorca and would not go away until Wiggins adressed the message... the hiring of Gert Leinders, and the sacking of four key members of staff since he won the Tour.
Kimmage concluded: “Oh, last thing Bradley, if you would like to address those issues in an interview, I'd be more than happy to sit down with you.”
Even before he won the Tour in July, Wiggins learnt that being favourite for the race meant that his performance would be scrutinised from all angles and that questions would be asked about how he achieved it.
That’s unsurprising given the history of some of the men who have stood on top of the podium over the last couple of decades.
Until he and Team Sky manage to satisfy some of their more vocal critics, the hard questions will continue to be asked – and Kimmage will be foremost among those who want to ask them.
Meanwhile Cavendish turned the air blue at the Omega Pharma-Quick Step presentation in Ghent last night when he was repeatedly asked his opinion regarding Lance Armstrong’s reported confession.
His frustration is perhaps understandable – he was there after all to be officially presented to the public alongside his new team mates including Tom Boonen – and it’s also one that won’t surprise seasoned Cav-watchers.
According to ITV Sport, the former world champion had in fact already replied to two questions put to him on the subject.
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-01-15/cyclist-mark-cavendishs-frustration-b...
“There's been reports that he's confessed to doping but I haven't seen any interviews yet, so until then I can't really comment," he said in reply to the first.
Then, when asked if he would be watching the interview, he explained he wouldn’t, since he’d be travelling to Argentina where he is riding the Tour de San Luis, which starts next week.
ITV Sport says Cavendish then took a member of team staff to task, saying, “Why was I left alone there with that guy asking about Lance? One of you should have been around then.”
Despite that, it seems no-one thought to forewarn reporters taking part in a subsequent round of interviews, and when he was again asked his opinion Cavendish, whose autobiography Boy Racer, carries the two word quote “Cool Kid” from Armstrong on the cover of the paperback version, really blew his stack.
"**** off, seriously **** off if you're asking about this," he is reported to have said, before asking one of the team’s staff, “Can you get him away please. Please get this guy away. He just wants to talk about Lance, **** off.”
[We have a hunch the words asterisked by ITV all started with 'F' - ed]
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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Looks like the sort of phone that was designed to be smuggled into prison, via a mars bar or where the sun don't shine...........
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There's no need for foul language.
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72 comments
Its not at all useful or pertinent to compare overall avg speeds for a GT, there are just too many variables. And they dont even out in the end, that's not the case.
Eg:
parcours
how many kms TT (or TTT) vs mountain stages vs flat vs rolling etc
weather can have an effect
just how hard the race is ridden by the field
strength of the field
Comparing a climb has some more pertinence.
There are some stats knocking around for the Peyragudes climb. Stage 17 of the Tour last year, Wiggins and Froome climbed it at something like 1m 30s slower than Pantani in 98 and with considerable lower watts and VAM stats
One of the issues I have with Kimmage is that he doesnt seem to have attended any bike races, or 'worked' with any teams since Garmin in 08. He seems to be stuck in a blind alley of 'it used to be like this and it cant have changed'. He has no understanding of how approaches to training, for example, have evolved, and its clear that he makes no effort to do so.
He also has nothing to say about other highly successful teams. Nothing about OPQS who dominated last year's classics exactly as Sky did stage races - and OPQS with dear Dr Ibarguren Taus? Or Valverde and Contador coming back from bans and winning immediately on their return?
Kimmage has been put on a pedestal and made a martyr - and the result is that any attempt to put him under any type of scrutiny is decried immediately.
Personally I find this unhealthy.
Yes, he has "every right to respond that way". He can "respond" any way he likes. But if he continues to respond in an unguarded, frustrated, volatile way he will get more questions because he will be seen as 'good copy'.
He should apply the same discipline and mental strength to his media work as he does to his riding: it's part of the job.
Or not, as the case may be. Blowing his top and using colourful language will be way more entertaining.
Cav has every right to respond that way - you can understand the frustration. He rides himself inside out, wins the worlds biggest races, he's got a new team (this press conference was supposed to be all about the team presentation) and yet all the journalists want to talk about is Lance. Again. As they have done for the last 10 years.
Journalists keep asking the same questions to see if there is any difference in the answers. Also, when respondents get annoyed they can say things they perhaps didn't mean too, which is why journalists often seem to ask such 'dumb' or rude questions.
Wiggins and Cavendish will be press targets for quite some time. They both have the furthest to fall so it is understandable that they will be the focus of attention. Plus, in cycling terms, history tells us that a high percentage of athletes have been dopers, so despite the claims of "cycling is different now" the odds of riders being dirty are still quite high.
In PR terms, Sky, Wiggins and Froome probably need to lose this year - and lose badly. It would set their 2012 season in untainted aspic (see Cadel Evans) and derail the comparisons with USPostal.
It may happen naturally anyway if Wiggins' win last year was indeed a blip and the Centenary course is not to his favour. But if Sky just take up where they left off, the questions will continue to be asked. It's only natural, given the background.
PS: I would imagine a PR or press liaison job with a pro-cycling team would be an impossible job right now. I'd think twice about it.
Disagree with your comment 'In PR terms, Sky, Wiggins and Froome probably need to lose this year - and lose badly. It would set their 2012 season in untainted aspic (see Cadel Evans) and derail the comparisons with USPostal.'
All that would do is lead to the usual Twitter suspects, Kimmage et all claiming that this 'proves' that Sky must have been up to naughties with the people they've got rid of - i.e. successful with them, less successful without. With those accusers Sky are in a no-win situation.
Wiggo seems pretty relaxed about the whole thing and keeping calm, I dont tink he's going to take the bait from this Kimmage muppett, and dont believe he has to.
Cav is just a legend, what a great quote "**** off, seriously **** off if you're asking about this," he is reported to have said, before asking one of the team’s staff, “Can you get him away please. Please get this guy away. He just wants to talk about Lance, **** off.”
@Colinth
Sky should never have said yes to Kimmage's request to embed with the team and then said no. It just gives Paul Kimmage ammunition and an angle to start a discussion.
Regarding 2012 TDF results none of the team barring Froome where ever going to get too high on the GC. Its the fact that during the mountains it tended to be the same guys everyday, day after day being able to ride hard tempo for longer than any of the other teams and indeed alot of the GC contenders. I don't think that Sky's technical and performance staff can have that much more knowledge or a silver bullet which gives them such an edge over the other teams which is giving domestique's the ability to match and exceed performance of GC riders in the mtns.
Unfortunately having Gert Leinders as a doctor within the team and then terminating his employment within months of winning the tour is not the best PR. Never mind the other team members who have admitted to doping and as a result of admission have be proven liers. Can these people be trusted!
This is Kimmage from 1999.
The man is consistent in the face of popular consensus.
I don't think he's pointing the finger at wiggins - more Brailsfords lack of transparency and double standards.
I don't see bitter - surely the mans doing his job.
Phil Ligget calls himself a journalist as well - I know who's opinion I trust more.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/reserving-the-right-to-applaud-403806.html
He's absolutely pointing the finger at Wiggins, he wrote an article just after the tour basically accusing him on the grounds that he's been friendly with Armstrong in the past ! He is anything but consistent, read any of the interviews he's done with other sportsmen, no mention of drugs. He wrote a whole book with a poor lad who was paralysed playing rugby, no mention of drugs, despite the fact that the huge steroid abuse in rugby is a contributing factor to the increase in neck injuries. He'll take the coin of kiss a$$ like all the rest when it suits him
Just looked at 2012 TdF results.
After Wiggins and Froome the next set of riders for Sky were:
Michael Rogers at 54:52
Richie Porte at 1:20:49
Edvald Boasson Hagen at 1:52:34.
They were all pushing hard throughout the mountain stages until they could push no more and dropped away as their overall times show. If they were all on drugs as insinuated by kimmage than their times should and would have been better.
That's not exactly a scientific way of looking at it. You can look at LA's team and see exactly the same drop off to Hamilton, Landis, Andreu, Livingstone etc. The problem is that doping has not gone away, and it is those that win that are most likely to have used it (why dope when it doesn't help?!). This is why Wiggo gets faced with the questions, this is why we are suspicious. You can't close your eyes to this, and it would be wrong of Kimmage and Walshe to turn their backs on this. The fundamental thing is that we do not close our eyes to this possibility. Until a fool proof testing system is possible we should be sceptical of all achievements. I do feel sorry for cyclists though, I'm sure that drug taking is happening in a lot of other arenas. But only cycling is airing its dirty laundry. Take sprinting: following the Balco era we should be sceptical of all WRs, but the sports media take a blind eye to the likes of Bolt and Co.
Simon, you can only beat whats in front of you and the Sky riders destroyed themselves to get rid of any challenge from other riders.
Contador at the top of his game ? rightly or wrongly there will always be doubts now about his ability after the steak incident.
What would be interesting to see is how Sky would do against the Armstrong era USPS team.
You can't fault the tactics. Wiggins' best chance of the overall was always putting in storming ITTs and controlling the race in the mountains.
They'd ridden Paris-Nice, Romandie and the Dauphine as full-blown rehearsals, and in the Tour it showed.
Also needs to be acknowledged that the competition wasn't particularly strong last year, which played into Sky's hands.
No Contador, no Andy Schleck, Evans well below par, Nibali the only one really to have a proper go.
How would they have coped with Contador say at the top of his game? Could have taken big time in the mountains, wouldn't have lost much in the ITTs.
I agree. It wasn't a great tour race-wise.
It was a 3 week team time trial in the same fashion of USPS in their 'prime', but looking at the times you have to admit that it's no where near as dominant, which does suggest a cleaner race.
With most of the top GC contenders out or out of form, it was Wiggin's best opportunity - he took it, fair play.
How come journalists aren't camping out outside the training camps and hijacking the team launches of other leading lights of the peloton, ones who had far greater connections with Lance, and doping convictions of their own? People like Olympic road champion, and eyebrowless wonder of the Kazakhstan steppes, Alexandre Vinokourov? Or former Lance team mate, and fellow Johan Bruyneel disciple, Alberto Contador? Or the human slug, Alejandro Valverde? Or Ivan "I only intended to dope" Basso, alleged friend and nearest challenger to Lance (i.e. the person with the second best doping programme in the mid-2000s.) The reason, I suspect, is that the journalists are hoping for the kind of reactions they got: peevish, annoyed, and after a decade of being in fear of Lance's wrath, over-cautious. Which makes good copy, especially for sports editors whose only interest in cycling is doping insinuations. Those other riders, on the other hand, will blow off the question, as they do questions regarding their own cases. A pity, as it would be interesting if they could get someone who was probably inspired to dope by Armstrong to talk openly about it (Ricco, maybe, after all he has nothing to lose.)
Unfortunately Sky as a team have shot themselves in the foot on a couple of occasions regarding transparency.
In 2010 they invited Kimmage to embed with the team during the Tour but Wiggins blocked it. Why? If you want to to prove your squeaky clean let the journalist in to see the setup. (www.bit.ly/Miakt6)
The hiring of various Directors Sportifs and doctors who where upto their neck's in doping. Leinders, Yates and Julich. Dave Brailsford knew their respective background's before hiring them, bad choice.
What about Michael Barry's signing, Landis linked him to doping previously.
Brailsford should not have set out his stall from the start as so high and mighty against doping and then hire these people. He basically played lip service to one of the main principles of the team's foundation
IMO Wiggins won the Tour clean with the aid of team orders (Froome was a lot stronger in the Mtns and could have lit the race up had he been free to do so). The bigger issue is that the team seemed to be utterly faultless everyday? I think that in a situation where a team is utterly dominant the whole team needs to be heavily scrutinised. At the end of the day a single rider doesn't win the tour without an extremely good team controlling it for him.
I think Kimmage should pull his copy of Moby Dick off the shelf and give it a read.
Kimmage is scratching around for something to do, his career is already on the slide and now that LA is old news he's got nothing to say worth listening to. Screaming unfounded allegations at Wiggins and then kindly offering to let him address them in an exclusive interview is sad and desperate. Seems like the only person in the sport who doesn't want to move on is kimmage.
Also, the point someone made earlier about him addressing doping in other sports is something I put to him on email. He's interviewed dozens of sportsmen but had never ever mentioned drugs in any interview other than with a cyclist
Kimmage's problem is that he is suddenly about to become a nobody.
Now that Armstrong has been shown to be a cheat and everyone knows it, especiaily if he admits is, Kimmage is no longer the one guy out there speaking 'the truth'. That means after Lance confesses Kimmage is irrelevant, his job is done and he's not got anything left in his life.
His witch-hunt of Sky (which appears to based on the fact that they didn't want him hanging around the team at all hours during the Tour with complete access - bitter much?) runs the risk of him losing whatever good reputation he's built for himself. Yes Sky used the 'US Postal' model of controlling a race but they had to have the team there to do it and they were up against average opposition. These 'nudge nudge wink wink' insinuations about Sky are just harming Kimmage's rep and making him look desperate for another story, especially when he so gracefully offers to conduct an exclusive interview with Wiggins to 'clean up' a mess that Kimmage actually caused!
Kimmage's job is done, it's time for him to move aside gracefully.
Sure, but who should take up the mantle? I sort of get the impression people are tired of the drug allegations, which I understand.
But I also sense people want to suspend their scepticism about Wiggins and co (which I also understand).
The fact is that cycling is rather opaque about training and about drugs, this won't go away until it is.
Ultimately I think Team Sky and the other cycling teams need to work on their PR a lot more and these issues start to get less air. I don't think Cav was done any favours, but he should be used to all this. Why not just go for a cycle ride instead of doing a press conference? Let his wheels do the talking.
Have to say Sky/Brailsford more or less dug this hole.
You can't go around pronouncing you're team is squeaky from top to bottom, win the Tour and then hold a Show Trial where it transpires that most of your key back room staff, responsible for the win were dopers/facilitators.
Sky said they were 100% transparent. They clearly weren't and their reputation has been badly dented. It was their own doing. Can't blame Kimmage for simply pointing this out.
Kimmage needs to get a grip before cycling fans like us decide that he's just bitter.
For goodness sake has he not seen the data comparison between Lance Tours and 2012's Tour where Brad won?
Totally out of order in my opinion.
Telling a reporter to f off loses Cavendish fans? I doubt it somehow. And Kimmage's innuendo deserves all the scorn it gets.
I'll believe Wiggins is clean until he starts making donations to the UCI.
Makes me prefer him, would rather see personality and emotion come through in interviews rather than the scripted corporate lines you get in F1.
I can completely understand he must be fed up, he's there being presented as a top rider for a new team and all they want to ask about is a doper from the past.
Kimmage is like a witch hunter, if you drown you are innocent, if you float then burn the f****r. It reeks of bitterness. Why doesnt wiggins want to talk about it, coz hes sick of the subject thats why, he's pissed that his season was blighted by armstrong and the epo fall put. Anyway, how can you talk about it when the interview has not been aired. Time to let loose kimmage on another sport, I'm sure there is some drug use in football, send him on to sniff it out, he's going to feel empty now armstrong has fessed up.
I find all of this really frustrating to read and digest, Team Sky and in particular Wiggo had a very good year last year culminating in a TDF victory and yet they are now having to justify winning!! from what I remember from watching last years (not just the ITV highlights) they played it right tactically they didn't win every stage or build an unassailable time margin, it was close right up to the last TT stage. I don't read of criticism of Peter Sagan for example a relative newcomer yet took a number of stage victories. Yes their is bad history in the sport yet it comes under such intense scrutiny while other sports get none at all. You never hear of anyone questioning how a football team can win x amount of trophies in a season which is played over 9 months and then they do it again the following year and so on yet 1 Team win a TDF and it's automatically assumed by a certain element that they must have cheated. I can understand Cav and Wiggos frustrations they are now assumed Guilty until proved innocent by some.
It is interesting - yellow almost makes people blind. Though I doubt Kimmage is a fool and maybe that is what he's going for like philallan said. In the midst of all this Sagan has not even been mentioned and I actually forgot about him until johnty mentioned him! Whether I don't want to think that Sagan or anyone else winning doped I don't know, but I know that when I see someone winning I don't think "prolly doped", I think wow, got form.
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