More Surrey traffic cops truth bombs...this time about riding two abreast; Promising pro rider killed while training; 10,000 RideLondon entries on sale; How to overtake a cyclist; Ok, vroomer; Pro rider of 2021; Nature fights back + more on the live blog

This comment was duplicated and so I have edited it. Is there a way to delete it altogether?

I'm sure if you use your customary social skills it will have a suitable effect on them.

Nigel Garage wrote:

I see groups of cyclists riding across the entire road pretty much every time I go out on a Sunday down the country roads near me.

I wouldn't call it "riding 3 abreast", as that implies some kind of structure to the group, it's more of a loose, ill-disciplined, sweaty gaggle of unfit, uncouth, disrespectful and self-entitled middle aged and OAP white men.

The reason they do it is because when they congregate in this formation they can reach a speed of around 13mph - if they go out solo they can only do around 11mph. Plus they get the advantage of being able to hold a conversation while operating this slow-moving road block. Nonetheless, it's good to see none of the participants having to resort to the ignominy of using an e-bike.

Of course, for anyone trying to get past (i.e. me) they won't deviate or apparently even acknowledge your presence, even with my insanely loud freehub. All I hope for is that Ride London-Essex goes nowhere near these routes, as it will just encourage more of these antisocial gatherings.

For someone who claims to be so polite and courteous, your disdain for other cyclist who you perceive to be too slow or who choose to use electric assist is really something.

Nigel Garage wrote:

[ ... ] a loose, ill-disciplined, sweaty gaggle of unfit, uncouth, disrespectful and self-entitled middle aged and OAP white men. [ ... ]

when they congregate in this formation they can reach a speed of around 13mph - if they go out solo they can only do around 11mph. Plus they get the advantage of being able to hold a conversation while operating this slow-moving road block. Nonetheless, it's good to see none of the participants having to resort to the ignominy of using an e-bike.

Of course, for anyone trying to get past (i.e. me) they won't deviate or apparently even acknowledge your presence, even with my insanely loud freehub. All I hope for is that Ride London-Essex goes nowhere near these routes, as it will just encourage more of these antisocial gatherings.

Welcome back! This is more like it! "Slow", "eBikes" and a lovely detail of when you ride past them there will be cyclists how many abreast...?

"a loose, ill-disciplined, sweaty gaggle of unfit, uncouth, disrespectful and self-entitled middle aged and OAP white men" - excellent description.  Sounds like your favoured representatives are taking some improving exercise in your patch. I hope you wave to these "top lawyer" types as they pass. Isn't it great that they feel empowered to use the roads - as is their right, for which they need no licence - for non-polluting, minimal-harm healthy exercise, social conversation etc.? I prefer to imagine them doing that rather than polluting the airwaves with their "controversial" views, campaigning for the removal of cycle lanes, bringing in repressive legislation and generally maintaining the patriarchy!

Nigel Garage wrote:

I see groups of cyclists riding across the entire road pretty much every time I go out on a Sunday down the country roads near me.

Funnt just the other day you were saying how the parts of essex near you were particularly civilised.

I have never seen a group of cyclists ACROSS THE ENTIRE ROAD anywhere else. (except ride london on closed roads) So if you see if often things must be much worse where you are.

Nigel Garage wrote:

I see groups of cyclists riding across the entire road pretty much every time I go out on a Sunday down the country roads near me.

I wouldn't call it "riding 3 abreast", as that implies some kind of structure to the group, it's more of a loose, ill-disciplined, sweaty gaggle of unfit, uncouth, disrespectful and self-entitled middle aged and OAP white men.

The reason they do it is because when they congregate in this formation they can reach a speed of around 13mph - if they go out solo they can only do around 11mph. Plus they get the advantage of being able to hold a conversation while operating this slow-moving road block. Nonetheless, it's good to see none of the participants having to resort to the ignominy of using an e-bike.

Of course, for anyone trying to get past (i.e. me) they won't deviate or apparently even acknowledge your presence, even with my insanely loud freehub. All I hope for is that Ride London-Essex goes nowhere near these routes, as it will just encourage more of these antisocial gatherings.

Does someone need a hug?

There We Are Then.

I used to think that was what people were actually seeing & predominantly probably still is, but I am increasingly seeing groups of 3 riders out often riding abreast, not in tight formation spread across the whole road as such but positioned so they can all comfortably chat across to one another.

And they dont always single out properly when traffic is around trying to get past.

Whether it's becoming more of a thing I'm not sure, but its definitely a thing that happens.

Nigel Garage wrote:

I'm glad someone else has validated my observations. I think it's a problem that's getting worse and worse, and it's high time we got some Singapore-style legislation in place to tackle the scourge of anti-social group riding.

[/quote]

We do have relevant legislation in this country.  To give you a simple example, there is legislation that relates to maximum speeds for motor vehicles.  Other legislation relates to protected characteristics.  These characteristics include age, sex and race.  Acordingly, identifying a group on the basis that they are  "middle aged and OAP white men" is the sort of thing that only a fool would do.  QED.

Until I clicked the link I thought you were referring the ban on chewing gum and fines for not flushing the loo! I take it as read that you would approve of the Singapore limitations on free speech.

There We Are Then.

Do you mean 'across the whole road' or 'across the whole lane'. If they're across the lane (i.e. all on one side of the white line) then it makes no material difference to when they can be safely overtaken. If the position of a cyclist or group of cyclists makes a difference to when you can overtake on a two-lane road, then the overtake you were planning to make wasn't safe anyway. 

On narrow roads, riders will rarely ride side-by-side because the risk of being hit by an oncoming car just isn't worth it. If the riders are close enough to the left to not be in danger of having a head-on collision with an oncoming car, then an overtake is possible, although probably not safe because if a road is that narrow, it's unlikely that you could give the 1.5m minimum anyway. 

It's not that scientific an analysis really, it's just I've seen groups of 3 riders across a whole road and more frequently spread across a whole lane and every type of combination in between, it depends on the road width really. But the basics are just imagine 3 riders together, so they can principally chat to one another but not always 3 across and certainly not in a 2 up 1 behind combination, and that may then cause other traffic, including other cyclists to have more difficulty passing them than if theyd stuck even to that 2-1 formation, or had just singled out as is recommended in some situations to do.

And it's something I've noticed, maybe since club rides havent returned to pre Covid levels yet so there are smaller groups heading out, that's been increasing recently. What it means overall I dont know, I'm a sample size of one.

As for people who expect this 1.5m ideal gap at all times, they will quickly come unstuck on rural roads imo, many of which are barely 1.5m to begin with, if they ride like that.

There has to be some give and take sometimes.

Awavey wrote:

There has to be some give and take sometimes.

There does, but it's the cyclists' gift to give, not the motorist's gift to take.  If it's that tight, then it really doesn't matter how many abreast a group is, overtaking is not safe unless it is made safe by the cyclists detouring out of the way.  That may be a solution, but it can't happen every time a group gets another motor vehicle behind them... cyclists are also allowed to make reasonable progress (and reasonable doesn't mean as fast as a car could).

Any driver going down such narrow lanes should be anticipating delays: cyclists, a group of walkers, horses, tractors, flock of sheep... there is no right to a journey time.

GMBasix wrote:

Awavey wrote:

There has to be some give and take sometimes.

There does, but it's the cyclists' gift to give, not the motorist's gift to take.

How beautifully put.

On the few occasions I have caught up with a group that is too wide to overtake within my lane, I have found a courteous call of "I'd like to pass on your right" works very well. It must be a thing local to the Lothians, Borders, Fife, Perthshire, Isle of Arran, Stirlingshire, Angus, Tayside, Northumberland, Yorkshire, Berkshire, Oxfordshire, Somerset, Wiltshire and Suffolk, because our courtesy correspondent confirms that it does not happen in Essex.

Absolutely, honestly cannot recall a single instance in 40 years of people refusing to move over when politely alerted to the presence of faster riders, and I've never not moved myself when asked. Perhaps some people's supercilious attitudes (along with their "super loud" freehubs - male compensation alert!) show in the way they address others? Or maybe, just maybe, some people are making rubbish up?

Cool story bro - hopefully it'll get published 

Shake wrote:

Cool story bro - hopefully it'll get published 

2005's teenagers have been on the line asking if they can have their savage put-down back.

TheBillder wrote:

Shake wrote:

Cool story bro - hopefully it'll get published 

2005's teenagers have been on the line asking if they can have their savage put-down back.

Texting, surely?

This a genius wild ride of a comment, and I applaude it!!