Your bike hates you, Gumtree edition: How not to fit a front mech; DCS Andy Cox questions Mail coverage of Jeremy Vine cycle lane near miss; Monster Raving Loony Party: 15-minute city conspiracy theories "even too loony for us" + more on the live blog

sean1 wrote:

Only the driver is at fault.

You keep saying that but it's patently untrue. Perhaps you should brush up on your highway code. Start with rule 76.

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

You keep saying that but it's patently untrue. Perhaps you should brush up on your highway code. Start with rule 76.

Not sure I want to enter this argument but anyway...

It takes JV about 3 seconds to come to a stop from the time the car turns onto the bike lane based on the time stamps in the video payer. Is that waht other people see or is my computer playing up?

He seems to me to have "watched out for drivers intending to turn across [his] path" as he seems to begin to brake almost immediately the car enters his lane and decelerated at a sufficent rate to avoid a collision.

A rule of thumb (i.e. I don't recall the reference) is an average driver takes 1.5s to react (not great but I believe empirically derived) and then a car slows at 7m/s2. Presumably there is lots of variation in both figures based on many things you can imagine for yourselves. However if we take an average driver, but assume they were doing about 25 kph (no idea how fast JV cycles), they would have had 0.5s to spare, very approximdately, before a collision would have occured. Maybe JV wasted some of the 0.5s but hard to say IMO. Of course he was on a bike but I don't know the figures for that off hand and I can't be bothered to look them up when I could be spouting my ignorant opinion in a forum. Presumably JVs reaction time would be quicker than avergae due to the adrenaline from constant fear of detah JV must have based on his videos.

The only argument that seems to be being made against him is he should have braked sooner or harder. He seems to be pretty quick from what i can tell, given he isn't watching the footage in slo-mo waiting for it to happen. Braking hard has its own risks so it makes sense, up to a point, to use the space you've got and 3 seconds just doesn't seem like it is that slow of a stop - especially when it is fast enough to avoid the collision.

It's 19 secs on the twitter timestamp when the car indicates, 24 secs when JV stops, its 5 secs elapsed imo.

Ive done an emergency stop for a car that pulled onto a roundabout in front of me with no warning in less than 2 seconds from similar riding speeds.

I don't know what video people have been watching, but Jeremy avoided crashing. I shall put that another way, he rode in such a manner that he did not crash into the car that had been driven across his path.

The driver did nothing to avoid a crash, either not looking in their side mirror, or doing so and ignoring what they saw. And not noticing the road markings showing a cycle route.

ktache wrote:

I don't know what video people have been watching, but Jeremy avoided crashing. I shall put that another way, he rode in such a manner that he did not crash into the car that had been driven across his path.

The driver did nothing to avoid a crash, either not looking in their side mirror, or doing so and ignoring what they saw. And not noticing the road markings showing a cycle route.

Don't you be comin' on 'ere with yer common sense!

cqexbesd wrote:

Not sure I want to enter this argument but anyway...

It takes JV about 3 seconds to come to a stop from the time the car turns onto the bike lane based on the time stamps in the video payer. Is that waht other people see or is my computer playing up?

He seems to me to have "watched out for drivers intending to turn across [his] path" as he seems to begin to brake almost immediately the car enters his lane and decelerated at a sufficent rate to avoid a collision.

A rule of thumb (i.e. I don't recall the reference) is an average driver takes 1.5s to react (not great but I believe empirically derived) and then a car slows at 7m/s2. Presumably there is lots of variation in both figures based on many things you can imagine for yourselves. However if we take an average driver, but assume they were doing about 25 kph (no idea how fast JV cycles), they would have had 0.5s to spare, very approximdately, before a collision would have occured. Maybe JV wasted some of the 0.5s but hard to say IMO. Of course he was on a bike but I don't know the figures for that off hand and I can't be bothered to look them up when I could be spouting my ignorant opinion in a forum. Presumably JVs reaction time would be quicker than avergae due to the adrenaline from constant fear of detah JV must have based on his videos.

The only argument that seems to be being made against him is he should have braked sooner or harder. He seems to be pretty quick from what i can tell, given he isn't watching the footage in slo-mo waiting for it to happen. Braking hard has its own risks so it makes sense, up to a point, to use the space you've got and 3 seconds just doesn't seem like it is that slow of a stop - especially when it is fast enough to avoid the collision.

 

The fact that you think that the car entering JV's lane is the start that JV should have done something is very telling. Indicators are there for a reason.

stonojnr wrote:

It's 19 secs on the twitter timestamp when the car indicates, 24 secs when JV stops, its 5 secs elapsed imo.

Ive done an emergency stop for a car that pulled onto a roundabout in front of me with no warning in less than 2 seconds from similar riding speeds.

Indeed. Any person who wasn't going out of their way to be an obstructive tw@ would have anticipated the other road user at the point of indication (that is , after all, what the little stick near the steering wheel and the flashy lights on the car are for ; so that others can anticipate what you're going to do. That's literally why they're there) and slowed down/stopped earlier.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world. Perhaps JV made a mistake, perhaps he was going out of his was to be an obstructive tw@. Given that he proceeds to go around in front of the car just to make a point, my money would be on the latter, mind you.

The only issue that I have with it, is in my opinion, by posting videos of himself being a tw@, I feel he is making it harder for the rest of us. The online backlash does seem to show this.

But he is absolutely entitled to be a tw@ on the highway if he likes and I can't do anything to stop him, but I won't pretend he didn't do anything wrong when we all know he went out of his way to get in front of that car to prove a point.

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

The fact that you think that the car entering JV's lane is the start that JV should have done something is very telling. Indicators are there for a reason.

To indicate your intentions - not to say that from the moment you put them on you are definitley moving and no way will you stop for anything.

Just watch a busy road for a while, where people want to turn across a car lane - you will see lots of people indicating and waiting for a break. The vast majority of people don't just put their indicator on and barge through. Cars coming the other way - well this probably depends on local driving culture and may other things - either go straight ahead and ignore them, or slow down and wave them through or sometime even stop if the traffic is queuing up ahead.

I think suggesting people should perform an emergency stop the moment there is someone indicating isn't sensisble, safe or common practice.

stonojnr wrote:

Ive done an emergency stop for a car that pulled onto a roundabout in front of me with no warning in less than 2 seconds from similar riding speeds.

Thats great. A long time ago I worked with a woman who had only narrowly missed out on becoming an astronaut. Watching her play computer games ... she reacted before I could even work out that something changed. I bet she was a good road user, although I never witnessed it myself.

I totally agree with the over egging, I think his whole persona does him no favours.  Unfortunately he's got a reputation behind him - pre anything to do with cycling- that a lot of people think he is just generally annoying. I don't know many people who wouldn't switch over from radio 2 at dinner not so much to do with the topics on debate but to avoid listening to his voice that could grate cheddar.

So who would be a better celebrity representative for cycling safety?

Chris Boardman?  Not famous?  OK, er... Boris Johnson?  No, not him...

I'd go with Timmy Mallett but then he's probably "before my time" for many and "niche children's TV" for those around at the time.  Adam Hart-Davis - same story.

Too many men already - what about Tanny Grey-Thompson?

Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of people who appeal to the common people, not in a derogatory way.  Someone like Peter Kay, everyone seems to love him judging from the hype around his tour...or it could alternate between what tv show is big at the time, Sarah Lancashire or James Norton from Happy Valley, in fact the BBC could have snuck some road safety in Happey Valley..a close pass on Tommy Lee Royce biking through the Calder Valley resulting in the next scene the driver of said car slumped over the steering wheel with the clear message of not knowing who you're fucking with when on the roads...so please be considerate to other road users.

I was just trying to think of ones that have been known to sit on a bike!

Peter Kay would be a good shout - someone positive.  Otherwise if it was just "well-known" I'd suggest Jeremy Clarkson obvs.

I did think Clarkson and top gear presents past and present, obviously James May has made his views clear in where he stands.  Only concern with Clarkson and other people who say things for the sake of controversy, is their other views being associated with cycling and putting normal folk off...

Chris Boardman is already up there, always has been always will, but unless your over a certain age or already in to cycling, a lot of folk won't know or care.

chrisonatrike wrote:

I was just trying to think of ones that have been known to sit on a bike!

Alexei Sayle?

MAOIST!

Quote:

Someone like Peter Kay, everyone seems to love him judging from the hype around his tour.

Sorry but I hate him so he's out!

Well I don't want to open this Pandoras box, but heck why not is Vine doing all he can to be visible there ?

Run and hide! Run and hide!

And what ridiculously bright colour did the motorist choose for their vehicle?

one that requires the owner keeps it regularly clean, shiny and bright as else it shows the dirt up something rotten 

SMIDSY should never be an excuse - it should be an admission of guilt that is punished appropriately.

Exactly. (Along with momentary lapses should be aggrevating factors not mitigations).

Moist von Lipwig wrote:

Slower speeds = fewer crashes.  Who knew....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64637389

Yes but the savings (both economic and in terms of life) are not more important that my ability to drive to my daughter's cello lesson in a reasonable amount of time, therefore I am completely against road safety improvements.

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

Moist von Lipwig wrote:

Slower speeds = fewer crashes.  Who knew....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64637389

Yes but the savings (both economic and in terms of life) are not more important that my ability to drive to my daughter's cello lesson in a reasonable amount of time, therefore I am completely against road safety improvements.

Ooopsie - I must have left Martin-mode on. Sorry everyone!

They're enough of a parody on their own thanks.

However - remove "reasonable length of time" and you get this:

"former vicar on 2,000 mile bicycle ride across Europe with a cello".

Bonus points for Dawes Galaxy but I'm not sure about the carrying though.  I upended myself once getting a Christmas tree home in that configuration.

I seem to recall road.cc reviewing some instrument carrying kit not so long ago, and (maybe the same) there's this one, modelled with suitable instrument:

https://www.mundomusicgear.co.uk/blogs/latest-news/how-to-carry-a-cello-...

If you're worried about crash damage of course you'll probably just use the turbo.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/turbo-training-and-playin...

I couldn't agree more, as long as it is *the best* cello teacher available, commensurate with the musical abilities of said daughter.

* one of the best

** in Kent

There is something wrong with the data! The speed limits do not apply to cyclists and pedestrians, who as we all know are the cause of all accidents with all drivists (especially professional taxi drivists) being innocent victims and totally blameless in all cases. There must be another explanation, correlation does not equal causation!