Councillor resigns over anti-cyclist 'w*nking off the Dutch' tweet; Jeremy Vine tours Kensington High Street congestion; Coroner records air pollution cause of death; Sir Chris Hoy: Cyclists and drivers should be 'less tribal' + more on the live blog

I realise that it is mostly because of the campaign by the mother, however I can't believe that with the last 100 year+ years including peas soupers, smogs and multiple cases of people having to leave the city to be able to actually breath, that this is the first "official" death attributed to air pollution as a factor.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I realise that it is mostly because of the campaign by the mother, however I can't believe that with the last 100 year+ years including peas soupers, smogs and multiple cases of people having to leave the city to be able to actually breath, that this is the first "official" death attributed to air pollution as a factor.

The 1952 Great Smog killed >10k. About 4k were killed between 5th and 9th Dec, but >6k died from illness in the following months. I seem to remember that the govt at the time put a hard stop on attributing deaths to the event so the total is likely significantly higher

I suppose that is attributing to a single event rather than general pollution, which may be a distinguishing factor

Quite right. The reason cycling is a pleasure in the Netherlands is because nearly every one cycles and therefore nearly all drivers there can empathise with cyclists and treat them accordingly. Now how do we get more people cycling to reduce tribalism and become more like the Netherlands. Cycle lanes? Can't do that because some drivers will complain. Ban cars from parks in London? Can't do that because some drivers will complain. Increase the cost of driving in towns? Can't do that because some drivers will complain. Etc. Etc.

Just the point I was going to make. Every time Hoy pops up here, it's because he has said something daft and unhelpful.

eburtthebike wrote:

Most cyclists are also drivers, so it isn't them who is tribal; maybe you should be addressing your comments to the drivers Sir Chris.

Yup, am getting fed up with the "why can't we just get along" bollox

Quite. We'd get along just fine except every time a tiny amount of road space gets allocated to cycling, a handful of incredibly loud entitled scumbags kick off about the war on the motorist.

If responsibility for crashes fell equally to drivers and cyclists Hoy might have a point, but it doesn't; it's overwhelmingly drivers maiming and killing cyclists.

Yep. Racing car driver Chris Hoy says cyclists and drivers should be less tribal... What he should have said is that some drivers need to be less tribal.

I think it's more drivers need to be a little less killey.

Hmm. Many of my engagements in the microcosm of the newspaper comments pages end with things like "typical arrogant cyclist" and me or someone snipping back "typical arrogant motorist".
I think engagement, or attempting it, has its place and I don't think we should be quite so hard on Sir Chris. I was suprised how many confessions arose on here a few weeks ago of past mis-deeds under Confessions of a (former Petrolhead." (Not starring Robin Asquith)

. 

It appears to have grown significantly in the last few hours and there's some who have recently popped up based in my area. I was going to ping it over to Bristol's cycling plumber but he's now on the list http://broughtbybike.com/company/pedal-powered-plumbing/

Bungle_52 wrote:

We know you don't produce any pollution but we are going to force you to sit in ours cos to try to use your narrower vehicle to get away from the fumes more quickly is unacceptable. If we hit you it's your fault cos we are too busy not leaving any gaps in the traffic, in case someone cuts in in front of us and lengthens our journey by a few seconds, to check around us before we make a manouvre. Also if you hit a pedestrian who steps out in front of you that's your fault as well, for not checking.

Oh and cycle lanes cause congestion so you can't have one.

Excellent summation.

Being normal doesn't mke something right though

For many drivers breaking the speed limit ir "Normal" they do it almost everytime they get behind the wheel, it is still wrong and illegal.

I would go so far as to say normalising incorrect behaviour in this respect is complacency as the driver/rider becomes less aware of the risks they are taking since they have done it so often without issue.  

All of this is completely missing the point of the video - that it was safe until they took away the bike lane, and taking away the bike lane has not stopped congestion caused by cars.

Okay you'repicking on the use of a particular word there... call it normal, correct, perfectly safe. I don't mind, I meant all of the above and will continue to do it :-p

Is Havers in panto this year? We could all turn up (socially distanced) and boo him.

"He's behind you (stuck in traffic)!"

PRSboy wrote:

Well folks can say what they like about the cyclists, but they are the only people (with the exception of bus passengers) on that road who are not adding to the congestion.

Neither are they adding to the pollution.

PRSboy wrote:

Presumably Google traffic data or somesuch can show what difference adding and removing cycle lanes made to average traffic speeds on those roads?

It would also be interesting to know about the rate of flow (cars per minute) which is not necessarily the same as average speeds

Is that unrepentant convicted drink driver Nigel Havers? Not sure if refusing to apologise for drink driving is a qualification that makes him a world expert in road safety.

Yep, that's the very obvious point Jeremy is making. Cyclists are not going to comply to the kind of behaviour car drivers are forced to by their vehicle size, they'll find a way through. We can do it in a safe manner with segregated routes and make drivers envious, or we can let them filter in traffic at greater risk and make drivers angry. Envy is better.

eburtthebike wrote:

I'm so glad to see that removing the cycle lane has completely cured the congestion.  As I've said elsewhere, an apology from the imbecile who took it out and those who campaigned to get it taken out would be entirely appropriate, and not to do so might seem rather curmudgeonly.

As for those people commenting that the cycling was dangerous, well, the cure for that is simple and obvious; a segregated cycle lane.

Not sure an apology would be enough. Tying them to a chair in a darkened room and playing this video on a loop at them with their eyes forceably opened a la 'Clockwork Orange' should do it. Then perhaps get them to write out 10,000 times 'I must not deliberately endanger the lives of vulnerable road users by bending over for reactionary gammon cockwombles'. Seems fair.

When I did my CBT I was told to filter and it would be expected on the test and if I didn't then I would loose points for not making progress, so if it's approved by motorcycle instructers and testers then it's alright when cyclists do it