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"Hi-vis distracts from the real issues on our roads," says makers of bike camera warning signs; "Tedious" number plate debate follows former Met chief's comments; Friday Facebook Fancy; A front light with a difference; Mythbusting + more on the live blog

Welcome to the Friday live blog everybody! Dan Alexander will be taking you through to the weekend with everything you need to know (and plenty you don't) from the world of cycling...

SUMMARY

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24 November 2023, 15:14
"Hi-vis distracts from the real issues on our roads," says makers of bike camera warning signs

You may already be familiar with the work of PassPixi, the makers of the magnetic bike camera warning signs which aim to dissuade anyone tempted to do something dangerous around the wearer. After all, the looming stick of potential penalty points and a fine through the post is almost certainly more effective than whatever the carrot I'm now struggling to identify is in this analogy.

In fact, through our Near Miss of the Day series we've covered this 'in the wild'...

> Near Miss of the Day 538: Close pass driver hangs back when they realise they are being filmed

In that case our Warwickshire reader had one of the patches displayed, the front and rear camera footage showing a motorist about to perform a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre before, presumably spotting the PassPixi logo, thinking better of it and holding back until it was safer to pass.

Anyway, rambling context done, onto this...

It would be interesting to see the respective treatment this rider got with and without the little camera sign. The hi-vis question always pops up again at this time of year, the dark nights and shortening afternoons prompting (often admittedly well-meaning) road safety groups, local authorities or police forces to urge using hi-vis clothing as a cyclist. Don't worry pedestrians, you've not been forgotten...

> Police ask pedestrians to wear hi-vis following spate of road deaths in Scotland

Other police forces, notably the Surrey Roads Policing Unit's famous social media account, prefer to point out the main causes of road danger should be prioritised, not forcing personal protective equipment on more vulnerable road users...

A point made in PassPixi's original post, where they say it "distracts from the real issues on the road". To many a reply disagreeing, they added to the discussion with this video this morning...

A familiar tale for any of us (regardless of what you're wearing)...

Check out PassPixi here...

24 November 2023, 17:02
"Would they like the shirt off my back as well?" Bike shop owners fume as Cycle to Work scheme stops retailers charging additional fees
24 November 2023, 17:02
24 November 2023, 16:35
Tom Pidcock checks out Tour de France gravel stage
 

What do we have here?

Tom Pidcock Tour de France gravel stage (Strava/Laurens De Plus)

 Laurens De Plus and Tom Pidcock took a trip to Troyes to recon the route for next year's ninth stage of the Tour de France, a 14-gravel sector lumpy ride through the vineyards. Maybe not quite as toasty in November, but at least you're not a four-time Tour de France winner demoted to role of Geraint Thomas' mechanic.

24 November 2023, 16:23
Comment of the day
Live blog comment 24/11/2023

For the offending review...

> Gorewear Gore-Tex Paclite Pants Men's

In our defence that's just the name of the product. Laurence quite rightly points out they easily go over his trousers. Thank you hutchdaddy for giving us all an image to try to forget...

24 November 2023, 14:39
Wait, it's Black Friday? Nobody told me...
24 November 2023, 14:09
School bike racks destroyed by speeding, out-of-control motorist, as pupils and teachers stage protest demanding introduction of 20mph limit
24 November 2023, 12:35
The return of Jo's Friday Facebook Fancy... just pray you don't actually have to ride this one...
24 November 2023, 10:57
Five great British bike brands that are pushing the boundaries of cycling tech
24 November 2023, 10:32
A last-minute contender for best cycling light of 2023?
24 November 2023, 10:22
Cycling mythbusting: nobody cycles in winter when it's wet and cold

Sorry, excuse my sniggering, seeing Greg post another video's reminded me of 'Tug-gate'. Never a bad day to share that again...

> Cyclist catches driver watching adult film and 'spanking the monkey' in heavy London traffic

24 November 2023, 10:06
Team Visma | Lease a Bike join the pantheon of whacky pro cycling team names

Sometimes when asked by a friend or family member about how pro cycling works, you'll end up explaining how teams carry the name of whoever is paying the bills but, since cycling's still relatively small business in the wider sporting picture, we end up with the world's best competing as a moving billboard for caffeine shampoo or Belgian laminate flooring. 

Add another chapter to that great book...

The all-conquering and relentless winners, Jonas Vingegaard, Wout van Aert, Marianne Vos and Co. part of the terrifying and ruthless victory-collecting machine that is... *checks notes*... Team Visma | Lease a Bike...

Out goes the supermarket, in comes the bike hire provider. Crack out the bad jokes when one of their stars ends up grabbing a neutral service bike in a moment of crisis...

In all seriousness here are the comments from Lease a Bike's managing director Ward Matser on the deal... "Lease a Bike's mission is to inspire people to go biking. For sports, for commuting and in everyday life. What better way to spread this message than through an extremely inspiring cycling team? We want to encourage people to live healthier and more sustainable lives and see Team Visma | Lease a Bike as a way to contribute to this.

"We are already successful in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria and we are expanding to other countries in Europe and to the USA. We believe in innovation, developing talent and doing things a little better every day. A vision we share with the cycling team."

No greenwashing accusations today... (and by pro cycling's not so glittering standards, that'll do for me)...

24 November 2023, 08:52
"How about policing the roads properly?": Cyclists shut down former Met Police chief's "tedious" bicycle number plate proposal

The dust is just starting to settle on the story from last night that the House of Lords heard a suggestion to tackle apparently "dangerous" and "entirely unaccountable" cycling by putting number plates on bicycles. And while I'm sure there's plenty said in the Lords that can be ignored, put away at the back of the mind with all the other ramblings of politicians of a certain ilk, it is always going to be slightly more concerning/infuriating/facepalmingly depressing coming from the man who was in charge of the Metropolitan Police for five years...

 Cycling lawyer Rory McCarron, who works for Leigh Day and assisted British Cycling in its recent call for an end to "hazardous leniency" in sentencing of drivers who kill or injure cyclists, picked apart Lord Hogan-Howe's comments, in particular the bit about how "on occasion they [cyclists] have terribly injured people and on some occasions killed them".

"Yes," he replied. "And these very few cyclists have been identified and held accountable? Ermir Loka, Charlie Alliston etc. How many unaccountable cyclists are killing/seriously injuring people? Not many. He has also failed to outline what he considers dangerous cycling by giving an example. I'm guessing he woke up this morning and felt dangerous."

Another said it was "classic looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist", Andrew Buss adding: "Just wait until he hears about the huge number of KSIs [killed and seriously injured] due to car drivers. If only they had a system of registration and licensing. Oh…"

Over on Facebook, road.cc reader Stephen Ward commented: "Ignoring how well it works for cars and other vehicles I can't help but think the Met have bigger issues to deal with than getting inundated with reports of cyclists riding two abreast or ignoring cycle lanes." 

eburtthebike: "[Quoting Hagen-Howe]...'On occasion they have terribly injured people, and on some occasions killed them.'

"When? How often? How many compared to cars? How many people are killed by drivers who are not arrested or punished or who are let off with such pathetic excuses as 'the sun was in my eyes' or 'I thought I hit a sack of potatoes'? No, let's attack an out group whose transgressions are so minor that they barely register."

Here in the road.cc website comments section, some of our standards are clearly a tad lower...

Clem Fandango: "At least he acknowledged that cyclists are actually people. Baby steps fellow evil lobby members, baby steps."

Every cloud...

Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.

Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.

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66 comments

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squired replied to Steve K | 1 year ago
3 likes

Steve K wrote:

squired wrote:

The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.  

By that logic, they can't do anything about shootings.

No numberplate, so no way to identify him....  The video of the accident wasn't enough.  Or the fact that the camera from my bike shows that he went into the nearby Tesco and did some shopping before disappearing.  I suggested they might be able to identify him given that people generally pay by card, but they just closed the case and said there is nothing they can do.

When he hit me he was carrying a can of laughing gas, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was known to the police in the local area anyway.

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hawkinspeter replied to squired | 1 year ago
0 likes

squired wrote:

When he hit me he was carrying a can of laughing gas, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was known to the police in the local area anyway.

A can? I thought they were usually sold in cartridges (c.f. CO2) for use in whipped cream devices.

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chrisonabike replied to squired | 1 year ago
5 likes

That seems extremely poor policing - straying into "can't be bothered" territory if you ask me.

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wtjs replied to squired | 1 year ago
6 likes

When he hit me he was carrying a can of laughing gas, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was known to the police in the local area anyway

These 2 were high on nitrous, shouting and laughing while careering round Garstang, blaring the horn, with the driver turning to show this picture of a naked woman's breasts on his phone. Ignoring incidents like this is just part of the routine every day's work for a Lancashire copper. Mind how you go!

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Surreyrider replied to Steve K | 1 year ago
0 likes

Or in fact anything.

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qwerty360 replied to squired | 1 year ago
1 like

squired wrote:

In the summer I was hit by a guy on an e-scooter.  I've had two shoulder surgeries since and am likely not back on the bike until January.  The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about the guy who hit me.

 

I wonder if you could make an insurance claim against the MIB for an illegal scooter.

I suspect that it would fall under motorcycle rules and I seriously doubt they could refuse to cover injuries from an illegal motorbike on the road... Could probably only claim for injuries not property damage, but still.

 

(depending on the type of e-scooter, it could plausibly be certified as a motorbike if it had plates etc, so I would argue it should fall under MIB cover...)

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wycombewheeler replied to squired | 1 year ago
3 likes

squired wrote:

The response from the police was that scooters are on the road illegally, so there is nothing they can do about  

The police are reporting that they are powerless to stop people committing crimes? Is this really the position they want to take? Because what are we funding them for if this is the case?

It seems really simple, no need to check if the e scooter is legal or not, stop them, charge them and confiscate.

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mitsky | 1 year ago
7 likes

Isn't North Korea the only country that actually has a cycle registration system?
Yes, lets go follow their example...

Upto 2021, as a cyclist with a camera, I was getting at least a 70% (if not 80%) success rate in the Met police issuing NIPs/FPNs for my dangerous driving reports.

Since 2022, the Met police are so under-staffed/under-resourced that I'd be lucky to get a 10% success rate now for identical reports with evidence.

So either dangerous driving is being considered OK or they simply haven't upped their game in dealing with it.

I've noticed an increase in dangerous driving lately (we all know phone use behind the wheel is endemic) and a massive increase in red light jumping by drivers as they know they can get away with it.

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HarrogateSpa | 1 year ago
4 likes

There is some good content on road.cc but I get fed up with the way you constantly try to wind us up and get engagement through outrage.

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essexian replied to HarrogateSpa | 1 year ago
11 likes

I'm triggered that you are fed up and outraged!

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lesterama replied to essexian | 1 year ago
8 likes

I'm outraged that you are triggered

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Boopop replied to HarrogateSpa | 1 year ago
0 likes

That's the way the web works these days I'm afraid.

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Rendel Harris replied to HarrogateSpa | 1 year ago
10 likes

HarrogateSpa wrote:

There is some good content on road.cc but I get fed up with the way you constantly try to wind us up and get engagement through outrage.

When the former head of the nation's biggest police force makes a speech in the national legislative assembly calling for something that would be incredibly restrictive and damaging to cycling, it would be a bit odd if a cycling website didn't report it, wouldn't it?

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
0 likes

Can't see anything on GCN or cyclingnews.com

They must be a bit odd...or maybe road.cc is a bit odd. 

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Rendel Harris replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
8 likes

They are both, as you well know, websites solely dedicated to cycle sport and as such this news does not come under their purview, as it naturally does for a more general cycling site like road.cc.

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
0 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

They are both, as you well know, websites solely dedicated to cycle sport and as such this news does not come under their purview, as it naturally does for a more general cycling site like road.cc.

Oh really? "Global Cycling Network" really sounds like a name they'd choose to focus on the sport side doesn't it! 

And hang on, did you say it'd be odd if "cycling websites" didn't report it? Which would mean you don't consider those to be "cycling websites" lol

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Rendel Harris replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
4 likes

thisismyusername wrote:

Oh really? "Global Cycling Network" really sounds like a name they'd choose to focus on the sport side doesn't it! 

And hang on, did you say it'd be odd if "cycling websites" didn't report it? Which would mean you don't consider those to be "cycling websites" lol

Oh sit down FFS Loser, go and look at the GCN website, every single article on there is about racing in one way or another apart from one article on teaching kids to ride. If you think these websites are so great why don't you stay on them instead of polluting the one from which you've already been banned? One suspects you're only here because of road.cc's curiously lax moderation policy whereby people banned from the site for bullying and racism are allowed back under new names, you clearly make this your trolling spot of choice as you know you'd be turfed from the other sites in minutes if you carried on as you do on here, and rightly so.

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
1 like

Now now, calm down, and come back into the room once you've considered your words and actions. 

More of your boring swipes at me - can't you think up anything else to say to try and get me banned? 

It's about time you were banned with your trolling of new users and pedantic childishness. 

It's not like you need to get that angry at me for correcting you. 

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Rendel Harris replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
3 likes

Left_is_for_Losers wrote:

More of your boring swipes at me - can't you think up anything else to say to try and get me banned? 

It's quite difficult to think of ways that you could get banned, given that you have already been banned as thisismyusername for your bullying, libel and racism. It would be excellent if road.cc had a policy of keeping previously banned users off the site but apparently this is difficult for them.

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kinderje replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
1 like

As much as I enjoy GCN's content they are definitely cycling/industry cheerleaders so I can understand why something like this doesn't appear on their everything is rosy site.

 

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Surreyrider replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
1 like

It's not news. It's been covered plenty before and the government has said it's not introducing plates for cyclists. So there is no story.

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Secret_squirrel replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
1 like

Rendel Harris wrote:

HarrogateSpa wrote:

There is some good content on road.cc but I get fed up with the way you constantly try to wind us up and get engagement through outrage.

When the former head of the nation's biggest police force makes a speech in the national legislative assembly calling for something that would be incredibly restrictive and damaging to cycling, it would be a bit odd if a cycling website didn't report it, wouldn't it?

Nope - coz thats the slipperly slope.  When one old buffer in the HoL says something that is in no way on the legislative agenda its irrelevant, giving him attention is what he wants.

 

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to HarrogateSpa | 1 year ago
1 like

HarrogateSpa wrote:

There is some good content on road.cc but I get fed up with the way you constantly try to wind us up and get engagement through outrage.

Are you talking about the superb and not at all divisive or engaging reporting that the highly trained road.cc staff do? 

They've openly admitted that people arguing generates more revenue. Sums up what sort of a site this is. 

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NotNigel replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
3 likes

Article on helmet use incoming....I don't think there's been one this week.

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mark1a replied to NotNigel | 1 year ago
8 likes

I'd be interested in people's views on disc brakes vs rim brakes, just in case anyone's opinion has shifted since a month ago.

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HoldingOn replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
5 likes

Wing mirror!

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chrisonabike replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
3 likes

mark1a wrote:

I'd be interested in people's views on disc brakes vs rim brakes, just in case anyone's opinion has shifted since a month ago.

I've forgotten where the science and ethics are at on what if any rules should apply if a trans person wishes to compete at the top level of a cycling discipline.  Or just any thoughts people might have around that issue.

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Surreyrider replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
2 likes

Don't forget mechanical vs electronic shifting.

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Surreyrider replied to Surreyrider | 1 year ago
3 likes

Or tubes vs tubeless.

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SaveTheWail replied to NotNigel | 1 year ago
2 likes

Those cyclists doing 44 m.p.h. through Ringinglow - I bet they were all wearing helmets.

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