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Ex-Aston Martin CEO claims 20mph speed limits mean drivers are "swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision"; Wholesome content as Luke Rowe's son does team car TT radio messages + more on the live blog

Dan Alexander is on duty for this Wednesday's live blog, bringing you all the action from the cycling world, including the Tour de France Femmes...

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26 July 2023, 07:59
Ex-Aston Martin CEO claims 20mph speed limits mean drivers are "swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision"

EDIT: Turns out Dr Andy Palmer left his role as CEO of Aston Martin a couple of years back. In his time since leaving the company, he joined electric bus maker Switch mobility as CEO, before stepping down from that role too at the end of last year.

Let's start with these comments from Dr Andy Palmer... 

The former CEO of Aston Martin and COO of Nissan who is, Wikipedia tells me, referred to as the 'Godfather of EVs' due to his work launching the Nissan Leaf. Palmer took to Twitter, sorry, let's try that again. Palmer took to X. Nah, Palmer took to Twitter to recall his train strike experience...

"Drove into London today (anticipating a train strike) to be met with 20mph speed limits throughout Central London, policed with hundreds of speed cameras," he said. "Another erosion of car users' rights which along with ULEZ is likely to be unpopular with voters. I guess the argument for is lower emissions and crash injuries, but I doubt there is credible research behind this.

> James May says 20mph is "plenty fast enough", and hopes "change in attitude" can help end road sectarianism

"20mph should be reserved for around schools & hospitals where it's entirely valid. Emissions in the streets of London will almost certainly higher since one drives in a lower gear to control momentum avoiding the speed cameras. And at 20mph, I'm now swarmed by bicycles overtaking from all angles raising the risk of collision. I'd love to see the research that supports this but like so many things these days, I doubt it's supported by valid facts but rather political expedience."

Cue replies from people unpicking every single word, sharing studies and data to the contrary and just generally making Dr Palmer go very quiet on the matter...

Of the replies linking the research and data that Dr Palmer suggested "like so many things these days, I doubt it's supported by valid facts but rather political expedience", one reply shared the link to a British Medical Journal study from 2020 titled: 'Twenty miles per hour speed zones reduce the danger to pedestrians and cyclists'.

Another popular one was Transport for London's February release stating that "new data shows significant improvements in road safety in London since introduction of 20mph speed limits".

"At sites monitored on the Transport for London Road Network (TLRN), collisions involving a vulnerable road user have decreased by 36 per cent, while collisions resulting in death or serious injury have decreased by 25 per cent after speed limits were lowered," TfL concluded.

On the emissions front, research by Imperial College, cited by TfL and in this Welsh government literature review into the state of evidence on 20mph speed limits, found that "it would be incorrect to assume a 20mph speed restriction would be detrimental to ambient local air quality".

The review suggested: "Although there was a moderate increase in CO2 and NOx in petrol cars, the study reported that particulate matter emissions reduced for both petrol and diesel cars and NOx and CO2 emissions reduced for diesel cars. As road traffic is responsible for up to 80 per cent of particulate pollution, this was a significant finding which supports the case for measures which secure observance of 20 mph speed limits."

26 July 2023, 15:47
Yara Kastelijn takes Tour de France Femmes victory on hectic fourth stage

There was barely a moment to take a breath during that last hour and a bit. One of the longer races you'll see on the women's calendar, today's 177km stage to Rodez packed all the entertaining racing you could want into a non-stop finale. Ultimately, the breakaway took the day, Yara Kastelijn to be more specific, powering away from her companions on one of the numerous climbs that punctuated the profile.

At the line, second-placed Demi Vollering behind wasn't sure if she'd won, such was the chaotic nature of the day, with riders all over the road, some dropping back from the large breakaway that got a friendly ten-minute headstart from the peloton.

In between the two aforementioned bits of action we saw a chase from Lotte Kopecky, the yellow jersey's power over the decisive climb impressive, but not enough to free herself of the peloton for long.

At the finish, the top-20 was a near perfect mix of breakaway riders and the GC group, Vollering second, Anouska Koster from the break in third. Six bonus seconds for Vollering over Van Vleuten and an all Dutch top four.

Kopecky remains in yellow, 43 seconds ahead of her teammate Vollering, who is herself eight seconds ahead of Van Vleuten. Shades of the earlier stages of the men's race with the close sub-ten seconds between the two pre-race favourites. Who will be wearing yellow come Sunday evening remains to be seen...

26 July 2023, 14:13
UCI warns Britain's stance on Russian athletes will affect likelihood of hosting future events
annemiek-van-vleuten-wins-womens-elite-race-yorkshire-2019-harrogate-picture-credit-swpixcom

With the final preparations being put on the UCI World Cycling Championships' return to British soil, the UCI has told Britain its hardline stance on Russian athletes will affect its chances of staging future international cycling events.

That's the news being reported by The Times, the governing body's president David Lappartient writing to sports minister Stewart Andrew to say that it appears the government does not trust the UCI to ensure Russian and Belarusian athletes compete as neutrals at next month's event.

The UK government has insisted athletes and support staff sign a separate declaration that they do not support the war in Ukraine or their nation's leadership, and do not receive state funding.

> Ex-cycling team boss Oleg Tinkov renounces Russian citizenship over Ukraine war

The UCI has joined the IOC in criticising this position as it contravenes the UCI's authority to determine eligibility requirements.

The letter, seen by journalists at the newspaper, reportedly says: "With the utmost recognition for the UK's efforts and outstanding track record in hosting major international competitions, I feel compelled to convey our concern that measures like these could impact on the future assessment of bids from the UK for the organisation of UCI events.

"I sincerely believe that in any relationship, reciprocal trust is of the essence. The fact that the UK government has not shown signs of trust to our organisation will affect our trust in the UK’s commitment to the organisation of sporting events in coming years."

> Ineos Grenadiers' Russian pro Pavel Sivakov denounces invasion of Ukraine

In response, a government spokesperson said: "There is a clear consensus — from a coalition of like-minded nations, including the UK — that there should be no Russian and Belarusian state representation in sporting competitions while the war in Ukraine continues.

"At the request of national governing bodies, we provided guidance on how individual, self-funded athletes could compete in the UK on a neutral basis. This guidance respects the autonomy of sport, but makes clear that athletes should not actively support [the war or Vladimir Putin]."

26 July 2023, 14:07
Shimano bike component sales fall by 18% as company cites "weak" demand for products
26 July 2023, 13:59
Police in Exeter appeal for information after cyclist pushed into Exeter Quay in "unprovoked attack"

Devon and Cornwall Police are appealing for witnesses after an "unprovoked attack" saw a cyclist in his 60s pushed from his bike into Exeter Quay.

The force said the victim was unharmed but his bicycle was left in the water after the incident at around 8.30pm on Thursday 20 July.

A police statement read: "The man was unharmed in the incident, however, his bicycle was left in the water. The incident took place between Exe Bridge North and Exe Bridge South which is adjacent to Edmund Street.

"Police are looking to speak to the male responsible who is described as a white, with light coloured short hair and was thought to be in his late teens. He was wearing a tight white tee-shirt. He was with a group of five other people. Anyone with information is asked to call police on 101 or by our website here quoting 50230202057."

26 July 2023, 12:46
Jonas Vingegaard returns to hero's welcome in Denmark

Is it 2022 again? 

The current Tour de France champ (yep, triple checked that one after the ex-Aston Martin CEO fiasco...) returned to Copenhagen to huge crowds this lunchtime.

26 July 2023, 11:30
Bahrain Victorious pro banned for one month for causing horrendous Tour of Flanders crash
26 July 2023, 11:20
Tour de France-winning bikes rated — is Vingegaard's 1X 2023 Cervélo S5 the best yellow bike yet?

26 July 2023, 10:18
Taking the P... out of the world championships...
26 July 2023, 10:05
The return of Schrödinger's cyclist — reaction time...

Some of your early thoughts on Dr Palmer's 20mph comments...

pockstone: "...'swarmed by ' something.something 'overtaking from all angles, raising the risk of collision.' Glad I've never experienced such a thing whilst riding in traffic."

Car Delenda Est: "And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those meddling speed cameras!" 

Carior: "Ah Schrodingers cyclist — both slowing down traffic and zooming past in excess of 20mph.

"Also — not being funny but whenever I am in central London on strike days, the speed limit is not the thing slowing cars down!

"Also also — driving slower uses more petrol? really? really? That's the line you're going to take whilst you criticise people for making unsubstantiated claims — what's this guy got a doctorate in? and where from because the standards of that programme are clearly very low!"

That would be a doctorate in Engineering Management, from Cranfield University, achieved in April 2004... Wikipedia is doing plenty of heavy lifting this morning...

26 July 2023, 09:57
3D-printed Superstrata bike manufacturing halts amid customer complaints
26 July 2023, 09:06
Why does nobody make SD work?

Another Tour de France Femmes stage yesterday, another SD Worx victory, the dominant team in women's cycling taking their second stage of this year's race, adding to their 2023 collection that includes... *deep breath*... Strade Bianche, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Flanders, Gent Wevelgem, Amstel Gold, Flèche Wallonne, Liège–Bastogne–Liège, Tour de Suisse, Itzulia and Vuelta a Burgos. The question on many people's lips this morning is why don't the other teams make SD Worx work?

Yesterday it was DSM who did the chasing, SD Worx sitting back, saving their legs, before winning the sprint with Lorena Wiebes. Puzzling, to say the least...

Anyway, that should be less of an issue today with no chance of a bunch sprint, and potentially even a GC day with the first look at Demi Vollering vs Annemiek van Vleuten...

TDFF S4
26 July 2023, 08:46
Wholesome content as Luke Rowe's son does team car TT radio messages

"FULL GAS NOW, ALL THE WAY TO THE LINE... COME ON, PUSH IT, UP, UP, UP... WE'VE GOT TRAINS AND DINOSAURS TO PLAY WITH..." 

Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.

Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.

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72 comments

Avatar
EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
7 likes

Dear car executives and morons,

Maybe instead of selling cars that are ineffficent and polluting at town speeds so that they can achieve a top speed of 130 - 200+mph - illiegal in almost every country in the world...you would find that pollution is an awful lot lower.

All new vehicles should be speed limited to the legal speed limit in each country they are sold in, and optimised for the environment they operate in (thats town speeds for the most part) Hell, I hear so called modern cars have 'tech' in them these days...maybe they could optimise themselves to not pollute so much at each speed they drive at?

Thank you

Avatar
AlsoSomniloquism replied to EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
6 likes

I agree. Will also add acceleration should be limited as well, especially with EV's as even the "lower-end" ones can do 0-60 in 5-6 seconds so 0-20/30 means they are across most of a roundabout from a standing start before the driver emerging from another junction is aware how fast they have travelled. You see it alot in the recent Dashcam videos.

Avatar
giff77 replied to AlsoSomniloquism | 1 year ago
1 like

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I agree. Will also add acceleration should be limited as well, especially with EV's as even the "lower-end" ones can do 0-60 in 5-6 seconds so 0-20/30 means they are across most of a roundabout from a standing start before the driver emerging from another junction is aware how fast they have travelled. You see it alot in the recent Dashcam videos.

It's now at the stage when cycling or driving that when I'm at junctions or roundabouts that I double check the regi plates for the EV tag and then take greater caution as the driver is either monopolising the acceleration or is unused to it. 

Avatar
Car Delenda Est replied to EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
4 likes

Nah it's a useful state of affairs: if God wanted cars in cities he would have made them efficient at city speeds.

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chrisonabike replied to EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
2 likes

On "Town speed" - the point of speed limits which the good Dr. appears to have missed is to reduce the number of collisions and - particularly in urban areas - to reduce harm when they occur. One of the consequences of a crash is that people will / are required to stop (and emergency vehicle may need to access etc). That will make it really slow! Avoiding that benefits drivers.

There is also the Downs-Thomson paradox - summarised: the average speed of private vehicles in urban areas tends to that of the public transport.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs%E2%80%93Thomson_paradox

Avatar
IanMK replied to EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
2 likes

I did wonder why a COO of a major car manufacturer would not see the changes to the way we choose to use our roads as an opportunity to get ahead of their rivals and offer practical cars for modern cities. Perhaps he knows that the gig is up and we need to move away large personal forms of transport. After all he did admit his preferred mode of transport, had it not been for a strike, would have been the train.

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eburtthebike | 1 year ago
9 likes

COO of Nissan

How appropriate for someone with a pigeon sized brain.

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brooksby replied to eburtthebike | 1 year ago
2 likes

eburtthebike wrote:

COO of Nissan

How appropriate for someone with a pigeon sized brain.

laugh

Avatar
wycombewheeler | 1 year ago
1 like

Quote:

"Although there was a moderate increase in CO2 and NOx in petrol cars, the study reported that particulate matter emissions reduced for both petrol and diesel cars and NOx and CO2 emissions reduced for diesel cars.

While I am a believer in 20mph limits, I think you have to be careful about particulate emissions, because at low engine speeds these can build up in the exhaust system, only to be cleared later when the engine is operated at higher speed. With my previous deisels I often had to rag the engine for a while before the MOT to clear out all the soot, so that when the tester rags the engine it measures current engine emissions only, not emmissions stored over several weeks or months.

Avatar
Awavey | 1 year ago
5 likes

Mobile phone traffic offences rise 579% in Suffolk

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/23645373.suffolk-mobile-phone-traffic-offenc...

More worryingly KSIs by unlawful driving have doubled over the last 5 years.

Avatar
qwerty360 replied to Awavey | 1 year ago
0 likes

Awavey wrote:

More worryingly KSIs by unlawful driving have doubled over the last 5 years.

Given death rates don't appear to have increased this is probably a good thing.

 

In that the change is we are holding bad drivers accountable rather than just accepting driving standards that kill as perfectly reasonable and normal...

Avatar
Awavey replied to qwerty360 | 1 year ago
2 likes

Well it means there are an increasing number of drivers on the road who think its ok to drive dangerously, under the influence of drink or drugs, without insurance or even bother with a valid license .

Because theyll only be caught after they've KSId someone, that's what concerns me.

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mattw replied to Awavey | 1 year ago
0 likes

Newspaper problem.

That's reports, not offences.

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HoldingOn | 1 year ago
4 likes

Quote:

Palmer took to Twitter, sorry, let's try that again. Palmer took to X. Nah, Palmer took to Twitter

Daft question - how are people pronouncing "X"? As the letter or as "cross"?
Instead of Tweeting - are people now X-ing or Cross-ing?

"Cross" feels like it captures the mood most people appear to comment on X....

Avatar
brooksby replied to HoldingOn | 1 year ago
2 likes

It seems to me that Musk bought it and now wants to change everything about it.  He started by sacking so many staff members, then changed the rules about verified twitterers, then changed them back, then changed viewing limits, then..., then..., then changed the name.

Imagine buying a carbon fibre road bike.  Then retrofitting rim brakes.  Then changing the decals.  Then putting on a leather touring saddle and North Road bars...

He would have been better off just throwing his money at a twitter-killer, like Zuckerberg did.

(Or buying a touring bike).

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to HoldingOn | 1 year ago
11 likes

HoldingOn wrote:

Daft question - how are people pronouncing "X"? As the letter or as "cross"?
Instead of Tweeting - are people now X-ing or Cross-ing?

"Cross" feels like it captures the mood most people appear to comment on X....

I don't know, but I've heard that Sesame Street are examining their legal options

Avatar
HoldingOn replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
3 likes

and Charles Xavier is considering using his first initial for his team name

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Oldfatgit replied to HoldingOn | 1 year ago
9 likes

X-creting?

Avatar
HoldingOn replied to Oldfatgit | 1 year ago
1 like

Oldfatgit wrote:

X-creting?

Winner. laugh

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Steve K | 1 year ago
4 likes

Dr Palmer may find this instructive.

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Awavey | 1 year ago
0 likes

SDWorx collection this year meant yesterday's win was their 50th stage win of the season.

I suspect the other teams are worried SDWorx could just unleash a solo TT victory as Marlen Reuser did at Gent Wevelgem, or at Itzulia when they all sat back expecting Demi to chase her back. Or it ends in a Paris Roubaix when the breakaway won because everyone sat back to let Kopecky chase for them.

Maybe just ask the other teams what they're thinking about it instead.

Avatar
brooksby | 1 year ago
11 likes

Quote:

car users' rights

What "rights" would those be Dr Palmer? 

Avatar
Clem Fandango | 1 year ago
11 likes

"another erosion of car users' privileges" (entitled wonkery I say!)

FTFY Doc

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pockstone | 1 year ago
11 likes

...'swarmed by ' something.something 'overtaking from all angles, raising the risk of collision.'

Glad I've never experienced such a thing whilst riding in traffic.

Avatar
Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
10 likes
Dr Andy Palmer wrote:

"Drove into London today (anticipating a train strike) to be met with 20mph speed limits throughout Central London, policed with hundreds of speed cameras,"

"And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those meddling speed cameras!"

Avatar
Carior | 1 year ago
10 likes

Ah Schrodingers cyclist - both slowing down traffic and zooming past in excess of 20mph.

Also - not being funny but whenever I am in central London on strike days, the speed limit is not the thing slowing cars down!

Also also - driving slower uses more petrol? really? really? That's the line you're going to take whilst you criticise people for making unsubstantiated claims - what's this guy got a doctorate in? and where from because the standards of that programme are clearly very low!

Avatar
Car Delenda Est replied to Carior | 1 year ago
6 likes

Driving, in a constant straight line, going 20ish will create more emissions than going 30-40ish as I understand it. Not sure if that's just because that's the speed engines are deliberately optimised for though, and I don't think it applies to Palmer's precious EVs.

However in the real world accelerating to the next red light then braking causes far more emissions.

Avatar
Awavey replied to Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
4 likes

Won't that very much depend on which gear and revs you are using ?

My car happily pootles at 20mph and its not some 1.1 eco city model

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wycombewheeler replied to Awavey | 1 year ago
0 likes

But the same engine speed one gear higher will produce more speed without much more engine emissions.

 

Avatar
Awavey replied to wycombewheeler | 1 year ago
0 likes

Indeed and I was always taught to drive in the higher gear to use the engine that way and control speed more easily, this ex Ceo sounds like he shoves it in 1st and revs the engine high to do 20mph which, purely on engine speed means its using more fuel, creating more emissions, than if he kept the revs lower in a higher gear.

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