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How about if all motorists were required to pass cycle proficiency as a pre-requisite to applying for a provisional driving licence?

IanMSpencer wrote:

 If driving was Coronavirus, we would all be on lockdown.

I think this is a quite ridiculous statement as there are typically 1800 road deaths a year, and there were over 100,000 covid deaths despite any restrictions. Even the term lockdown is a slight exageration, as no one was stopped from leaving their home, and no one was challenged for going out for exercise. Even the few instances where people were challenged for driving to exercise were later confirmed to be over reach.

wycombewheeler wrote:

IanMSpencer wrote:

 If driving was Coronavirus, we would all be on lockdown.

I think this is a quite ridiculous statement as there are typically 1800 road deaths a year, and there were over 100,000 covid deaths despite any restrictions. Even the term lockdown is a slight exageration, as no one was stopped from leaving their home, and no one was challenged for going out for exercise. Even the few instances where people were challenged for driving to exercise were later confirmed to be over reach.

Whilst I would agree that this rhetoric is a bit OTT, there was a story on the BBC about deaths in Mental health institutions. I think the number was 240/annum. This is obviously not acceptable particularly whilst they were in the care of the state. This problem is, however, seen as an intitutional/systemic failing and will be addressed as such - even though the individual circumastances will differ greatly.

Now go back to 1800 road deaths. Pretty much silence from the msm as well as the authorities whose job it is to ensure our safety on public roads.

Yep - will make no difference to perception. Apart from the shouty people and the occasional "bloody cyclists" rant motorists are mostly oblivious to the tiny numbers of cyclists. Indeed some drivers don't even see them... This would also make almost no difference to casualty stats because in 2020 40% of casualties were in a car, 24% pedestrians and then cyclists were down at 10%. rich_cb was quoting a figure of something like 16% for single-cycle accidents, don't have the source on that to hand.

I know that if...

• you seriously reduce the danger from motor vehicles
• ... by so much so that you achieve mass cycling...
• ...cyclists will be a less "self-selective" group and you'll also have the very young, the old, those with health conditions out on their bikes.

...then at that point it would certainly be worth some more thought about the dangers of cyclists to themselves. But we're not there yet. I think the number of places on earth outside of the Netherlands that are is very small if they even exist. (Copenhagen looks like it still needs to improve safety around motor vehicles...)

IanMSpencer wrote:

How many motorists have intimidated me in my car for driving at the speed limit - countless.

Oh, that's what they're doing.  I thought they were trying to become intimately aquainted with me.

I slow down to have a chat, and sometimes they move alongside, offer some gesture of their romantic intentions, but then they zoom off, like they've bottled it before I have a chance to decline.  Not my type, really.

Hadn't occurred to me that they were trying to intimidate me.  Either way, is it rude to laugh at them for trying?

Ric_Stern_RST wrote:

That piece of absolute scum, Freeman, is (and i quote from his website) "expert road traffic and criminal solicitors". I guess we could all ring up (0161 236 7007) and ask to speak to someone to explain how they're an "expert in road traffic" law?

 

As he is an "expert road traffic and criminal solicitors" perhaps we should all contact him asking to mount a defence, as we are being prosecuted for riding with impunity, not wearing high viz, riding in front of cars, riding on dangerous windy roads,  not riding at the speed limit etc etc

It is worth remembering the age old quote ‘self praise is no praise at all’

probably, the best thing that could happen is he is run over by someone he got off. 

High points:

• Making the pop-up lanes both sides of Park Row/Perry Road/Maudlin Street permanent.
• Moving the pelican crossing by Trenchard Street car park along, to match up with the desire line from Lower Park Row to Lower Church Lane.
• Lower Park Row to be one-way (uphill/westbound).
• Colston Street to be one-way (downhill) from the junction by the violin shop to the junction with Lower Park Row (you won't be able to drive all the way up Colston Street and out onto Maudlin Street).

Grey is the colour of dry tarmac.

Where black is bad is shaded country lanes. As a cyclist, I've (not) seen too many oncoming cyclists wearing black with no lights.

There isn't a perfect answer, but a mix of colours, decent lights is your best bet.

Of course, you then have to factor in the motorists who get insulted by the implication that you need to be lit up like a Christmas tree for them to have seen you and take it as a challenge anyway that requires their attention in the time honoured fashion of an advisory close pass as any proper driver believes is their duty.

Niemi

Except when the said hogger is rich and/or famous, when people like Freeman will make arguments for why the the law should be waived for that person on that occasion and work to keep the dangerous driver on the road...

There must be huge number of FPNs issued, everyday, on the M23...
...unless the police are out dealing with cyclists having the temerity to do nothing wrong.

Garage at Large wrote:

Veteran road safety expert and celebrated lawyer Nick Freeman has published a 10 point plan for improving cohesion and safety on Britain's streets and motorways. What are your thoughts?: - Ban using hands free mobile phones. - Reduce drink drive limit from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 50 milligrams. - Cameras should automatically flash middle lane hoggers so they are fined and receive penalty points. - Lorry drivers on three lane motorways should be confined to the nearside line. This would rise to the two inner lanes on four lane motorways. - A compulsory vision and driving test every two years for motorists over 70. - Newly qualified drivers should have to wear `NQ` plates for two years after passing their test. If they don`t there should be instant disqualification and a compulsory extended re-test. - Cyclists need to be identified with number plates, take a proficiency test, their bikes should have a yearly MOT and the wearing of helmets and tabards should also be compulsory - Learning how to overtake cyclists should be part of the driving test - Reducing use of fluctuating speed on smart motorways. - Speed limit should be raised from 70mph to 80mph on motorways

I've been trying to ignore your posts, but I think this one is probably worth engaging with.  First - stop calling him a road safety expert.  His twitter profile picture celebrates, among other things, getting a driver off for driving at over 100mph.  There is nothing possibly ''road safety" about that.

On his plan - agree on hands free mobiles; drink drivers; middle lane hoggers (at least the principle of tackling the issue); something on over 70s, not sure if exactly what he proposes; learning how to overtake cyclists (which is ironic, as he clearly doesn't know) and I'm ok on raising motorway limit as long as it is then strictly enforcd.

Ambivalent on the new drivers bit.

Disagree on lorries; the cycling bits (for the reasons that have been rehearsed to death); and the 'fluctuating speed limits' bit.

This is a really mixed bag - to be honest Mijnheer Garage's summary (can't be bothered to go find the original - wrong, I know...) reads like a poll of opinions in the pub you'd get if the interviewers looked "serious". So essentially "what gets in my way / slows me down / irritates me while motoring" plus some "oh yeah, that's unsafe". So we can treat this with the same respect.

A lawyer will certainly have heard lots of examples of unsafe driving and its consequences. That does not qualify as "road safety expertise" any more than we should get our emergency medics to set out our road laws and designs. We should certainly take notes from these people - but that's all. You can rely on a defence lawyer to tell you how to avoid more people getting to court. That's nowt to do with safety.

Garage at Large wrote:

The "middle lane hoggers" point is pertinent, as it's essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group - it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that's a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There's something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

Except it's not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman's video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.

Steve K wrote:

Except it's not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman's video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.

I asked NG that question yesterday and he ignored it.  He went back to the defence saying that Mr Loophole had probably been held up for ages before they started filming

Steve K wrote:

Garage at Large wrote:

The "middle lane hoggers" point is pertinent, as it's essentially the motoring equivalent of cycling many abreast in a large group - it creates an inefficient, unnecessary and difficult to overtake obstacle which frustrates and angers people. So perhaps that's a good way to visualise the group of cyclists in his eloquently orated video. There's something so uncivilised about their behaviour.

Except it's not, is it?  Had the group in Freeman's video been single file, it would have been more difficult to overtake them.

Just to add to my own comment.  The nearest to be equivalent to the middle lane hogger point is the 'lorries only in the inside lane' - which I do not agree with.  Both reflect Freeman's apparent view (as pointed out by IanMSpencer) that cars are more important than any other form of transport - when actually cars cause more delays for others (including other cars) than any other form of transport.

Stop feeding him. 

I'm thinking about opening a parody twitter account.. Farage_at_Large seems like a decent candidate. How about we use our collective brainpower to come up with the best parody twitter account names?

Fararge_at_Large : Voted least likely to succeed at school, look at me now you losers! Owns Toad Hall.

DJ_JC_Jeremy Corbyn : 2019 winner of the Youth vote, street talk for the younger generation, homie to Big Narstie.

Priti Patella : Voted Most Likely to Succeed, believes in corporal punishment for lacklutre civil servants.

(note I probably won't open a parody twitter account but this seems like fun)

peted76 wrote:

Stop feeding him. 

Sorry!  I have generally been avoiding doing so, but I thought the list of suggested law changes was worth commenting on; but then, of course, once you get sucked in...

I keep forgetting we've Nasal Forage to do this for us... still without grit in the oyster etc.

chrisonatrike wrote:

I keep forgetting we've Nasal Forage to do this for us... still without grit in the oyster etc.

Afternoon.  Yes apologies, the day job has a habit of getting in the way, we can't all spend all day fan boying "celebrity" lawyers and churning out tired,  derivative comments seeking attention.  That and I've just been out for a ride, I find it far more valuable.

Anyway, I see our friend is back to feed his habit.    I've offered him hugs, a shoulder to cry on, cups of tea, referals to top tier counsellors, the lot.  I'm thinking of seeing if Nick Freeman is on Cameo or something - maybe get him a nice message from him for Christmas.  Happy to take any suggestions on the content.