Mark Cavendish doffs helmet to Tom Simpson memorial on Mont Ventoux; Kids pulling wheelies photobomb peculiar patriotic procession; Ineos Grenadier 4x4 has cyclist horn; 99km/h; Wiggo's fashion show; Froome packs his running shoes + more on the live blog

I'm trying to think of situations where the car driver, being already so close to the cyclist that a pap of the horn would be a blast in their ear, would need to warn the cyclist of their presence.

If the unfolding situation demands a warning be given why would the car driver get so close before warning of their presence? And being so close, what is there to warn about; is the car driver intending to get closer still until contact?

I can only think this is a "get out of my way already" button. But maybe you can come up with scenarios where an actual "warning of presence" is appropriate?

Sriracha wrote:

I'm trying to think of situations where the car driver, being already so close to the cyclist that a pap of the horn would be a blast in their ear, would need to warn the cyclist of their presence. If the unfolding situation demands a warning be given why would the car driver get so close before warning of their presence? And being so close, what is there to warn about; is the car driver intending to get closer still until contact? I can only think this is a "get out of my way already" button. But maybe you can come up with scenarios where an actual "warning of presence" is appropriate?

Exactly.

Don't warn me you are too close, don't get too close in the first place

Country road, car coming from behind. I'd prefer to know the car was there and without mirrors on my cycle they can sneak up.

Might not make any difference to an overtake, but if know the car is there then an overtake won't come as a surprise and I may even make effort to wave them past if safe. After all, I have no wish to hold anyone up and if they are in front then I get the benefit of their crumple zone against oncoming vehicles, at least for the next couple of corners.

If you can sit through the 9min video showing the interior, and no they dont even demonstrate pushing the toot properly sadly.

Apparently it's also designed for in case you see some friends out on the road and just want to say hi...

My objection to the principle of a specific toot button with a cyclist label on it, rather than just engineering a normal horn depress to have two levels of volume, and I'm sure a car I had 20 years ago had actually managed that feat of engineering, is what use case have they imagined beyond a quick we sponsor a cycling team let's put something cyclisty init as a talking point,do they think it will be used for.

And that's ignoring their stated design aim that this isnt a car for normal road driving, I mean it's designed more likely to encounter livestock,why isnt a horse toot, or a sheep toot button.

But no cyclist on the road rides without awareness of traffic in their surroundings such that a motorist needs to announce their presence behind them with a toot of the horn to just let you know they are there ,because if you did ride that way youd end up in A&E pretty quickly. Yes there are times vehicles surprise you largely because of speed,wind noise,but a toot button doesn't solve that.

It comes across instead as a Beep-Beep out of my way I'm a motorist button.

I'm wonering how loud it has to be to be audible over the sound of that massive engine.

And Teslas are very loud too, maybe not ICE loud, but being passed by a few I'm always suprised how loud they really are.

Edit, I really should have continued reading the comments. 

Though my comment about electic cars stands, the tiny BMW is fairly quiet though, I suppose with the very efficient skinny tyres.

My first two cars were mark2 escorts both circa mid 70's and at least 10 years old by the time I got my hands on them. The horn was on the indicator stalk and was easier to give a 'toot' for some reason. Since the horn has now migrated to the steering wheel it feels to me that it is more difficult to achieve a quick 'toot' and drivers seem to have developed a more aggressive approach to using the horn. At least that's the way it feels to me! 

BobK wrote:

....at least they are trying ....

very....

Welcome btw

The hate originates from the fact that Ineos are making a big contribution to the destruction of our liveable climate. Not content with that, they are trying to create as much plastic pollution as possible.

The icing on the cake is producing a monstrous 4x4, and the cherry on the icing on the cake is that they are using a cycling team to greenwash their reputation.

I've run out of elements of cake to use as an analogy for the appalling-ness of the Cyclist Toot button - that's how bad it is.

Well, 

I guess we could all follow this lad's example...just to remind 'peds' and other 'road users' that cyclists do exist...a little toot from this wouldn't harm anyone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4_tU-zSF-c

The persons bio who posted that tweet

Quote:

Wife & mum who happens to ride an #ebike #cycling to work in the #NHS in #Sheffield

The one reply to her

Quote:

Liam Beales
@liambealesboss
·
19h
So do u to post shit like that.. was hoping someone would open the door and take u out

No surprise that Liam also tweeted abuse about the picture of the crying German girl either. Extreme right gammon alert. 

brooksby wrote:

On 'Quality driving' - I see this all the time, and do wonder what people think those painted lines/lanes with a cycle motif are for... 

Advanced stop lines for drivers and pedestrians.  Haven't you read the HC recently?

It might be time to resurect my plan to dress like a police and ride around, watching all the drivers suddenly clear the cycle lane for me.  Could be fun!

They are not looking in their mirrors, and from what I see when filtering through stationary traffic there will be a few staring at their phones too.

ktache wrote:

They are not looking in their mirrors, and from what I see when filtering through stationary traffic there will be a few staring at their phones too.

Even better.  Carry a notebook and overtly take down their registration.

quiff wrote:

I fully expect now to be told: (1) if I can't control a car horn, I shouldn't be driving; (2) "lights have changed to green" isn't an appropriate use of car horn.

I don't know about point (1), but point (2) is correct

brooksby wrote:

quiff wrote:

I fully expect now to be told: (1) if I can't control a car horn, I shouldn't be driving; (2) "lights have changed to green" isn't an appropriate use of car horn.

I don't know about point (1), but point (2) is correct

Is it okay to use the horn to warn them that they have become distracted by their phone? Because that's why they haven't moved ten seconds after the light turned green.

andystow wrote:

brooksby wrote:

quiff wrote:

I fully expect now to be told: (1) if I can't control a car horn, I shouldn't be driving; (2) "lights have changed to green" isn't an appropriate use of car horn.

I don't know about point (1), but point (2) is correct

Is it okay to use the horn to warn them that they have become distracted by their phone? Because that's why they haven't moved ten seconds after the light turned green.

That would only be OK if it was done by the green light, so the driver knows it is there.

To be fair, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've used a horn in this situation, but in any event I have now re-educated myself on the detail: "you must not use your horn while stationary on the road... except when another road user poses a danger". On which basis, query whether tooting a driver distracted by their phone is ok...     

[EDIT: oops, andystow got there before me]

I made a classic mistake last week. Turning right at a junction the van coming towards me flashed his lights and slowed down so I pulled across his path. He went mental. I realised after, that he was flashing to let a driver out and not to let me across. The traffic was virtually at a stand still but I don't think he even saw me until I moved into his path (btw, I was never in any danger). I should have been bright enough to know that the majority of drivers will never give way to a cyclist regardless of circumstance.

I accept my mistake. The HC states "‘Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users."  I wonder if he reflected on the same point?

That's why the HC is there. So we all understand the rules. It will only lead to conflict if we do anything else.

There's a right turn down to my office, usually with lots of motor traffic coming the other way so I have to stop and put my arm out (hoping that the drivers behind me have noticed that I'm stationary).

I've lost count of the number of times where a driver in that other lane will stop RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME due to a queue, as if I'm bl00dy invisible or something... 

Yes, frequently had this on my erstwhile commute, while trying to cross a busy stretch of the A1 in London. Not comfortable. 

Getting out of the end of our street is a bit of a sweat, whether on the bike or in the car, at certain times of day. I was sitting waiting to come out and turn right a couple of days ago (car), when the driver of a 4x4 paused when the line moved forward a couple of car lengths and signalled he was waiting for me. 

Unfortunately, there was a steady stream of traffic in the other direction showing no signs of letting me in, so I waited where I was, so as not to block the bus/cycle lane. Within 15 seconds he was blaring his horn because he was fed up waiting for me to go (in spite of the queue not having moved any further forward) and, at the point, the pedestrian crossing lights went red stopping the oncoming traffic.

I set off, and waved my thanks ... he gave me the bird and a two word greeting in response, even though the vehicle in front of him in the queue was stopped at the red light, his side of the crossing, meaning he was now exactly where he would have been had he not stayed where he was, and I had delayed his journey by precisely 0 seconds. 

Some people are simply not psychologically suited to being behind the wheel of a two ton killing machine. 

IanMK wrote:

I made a classic mistake last week. Turning right at a junction the van coming towards me flashed his lights and slowed down so I pulled across his path. He went mental. I realised after, that he was flashing to let the driver out and not to let me across. The traffic was virtually at a stand still but I don't think he even saw me until I moved into his path (btw, I was never in any danger). I should have been bright enough to know that the majority of drivers will never give way to a cyclist regardless of circumstance.

I accept my mistake. The HC states "‘Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users."  I wonder if he reflected on the same point?

That's why the HC is there. So we all understand the rules. It will only lead to conflict if we do anything else.

I wonder why he feels it was more inconvenient to him to allow another road user to cross his path, than to allow another road user join the queue in front of him?