"He has to wait, that's all there is to it": Jeremy Vine slams bus driver for near miss

That's the thing that surprises me about his content, I'm sure I could turn out regular weekly videos of "near misses" worse than that, so howcome that's the worst he experiences on his daily rides ? Is it just everyone is still in bed when he's on the road ?

"A large vehicle takes time to clear a junction"

And therefore has to wait for a larger gap in traffic.

"buses are given an element of priority"

No, they're not.

The crux of it is that bus drivers should wait for a point where they can turn without turning across other road users who have priority. The reality is that they sometimes don't. And more often with cyclists.

I agree with you on this.

But, you know, there have been people on This Very Site who have said that we should all be willing to give way (cede priority) to buses as they are providing a Very Good Public Service...

Indeed. I even remember the claim that each bus takes "hundreds" of cars off the road. It seemed likely that the father of Britain's newest cello prodigy had never actually seen the inside of a bus.

brooksby wrote:

I agree with you on this.

But, you know, there have been people on This Very Site who have said that we should all be willing to give way (cede priority) to buses as they are providing a Very Good Public Service...

To be fair, the Highway Code does say you should give priority to buses when you can do so safely.

Steve K wrote:

brooksby wrote:

I agree with you on this.

But, you know, there have been people on This Very Site who have said that we should all be willing to give way (cede priority) to buses as they are providing a Very Good Public Service...

To be fair, the Highway Code does say you should give priority to buses when you can do so safely.

JV had right of way. Did he cede right of way? No. You could say he should have (but note the HWC does not even say he 'should'), but the fact is, he didn't.

I notice a lot of the twits are excusing it because the van blocked the drivers view, they seem to think it is ok to start a manoeuver if you can't see it is clear to do so!

Beat me too it. If the van was blocking the bus driver's view, the bus driver should not have proceeded.

I don't think Vine has the priority there, and whats the phrase Ashley Neal uses, priority is given not automatic, Vine hasn't even gone through the ASL box and the bus is already committed to turning

Awavey wrote:

I don't think Vine has the priority there, and whats the phrase Ashley Neal uses, priority is given not automatic, Vine hasn't even gone through the ASL box and the bus is already committed to turning

Do you think that someone already in a junction has priority over people who have not yet passed the ASL on their side of the junction?

Rule 180 is clear and the bus driver did not comply with it.

Well I would argue rule 180 has a distance limitation on it by implication of determining what a safe gap is, & I don't feel the bus driver contravened the spirit of that rule, technically its a ding because it would force another road user to adapt, but the bus had a sufficient gap when they committed to the maneuver and i dont feel what they did was particularly dangerous, especially not to an experienced road cyclist.

But if we're citing HC rules why is Vine not following rule 146 or rule 147 ?

Awavey wrote:

Well I would argue rule 180 has a distance limitation on it by implication of determining what a safe gap is, & I don't feel the bus driver contravened the spirit of that rule, technically its a ding because it would force another road user to adapt, but the bus had a sufficient gap when they committed to the maneuver and i dont feel what they did was particularly dangerous, especially not to an experienced road cyclist.

But if we're citing HC rules why is Vine not following rule 146 or rule 147 ?

I'm often critical of JV's cycling. He clearly could slow down earlier and prevent a conflict. But that does not excuse the bus driver for turning when it was not safe. When the bus driver started the turn they could not even see that the way was clear because of the van, notwithstanding the oncoming cyclist.

If you think that turning across a junction despite not seeing that the way is clear, and continuing to do so despite an incoming cyclist is in 'the spirit' of rule 180; i.e. that it is waiting until the is a safe gap between you and any incoming vehicle, you're not safe to be on the road.

Thanks, that's an eminently sensible comment

Should the bus driver have waited... probably.  Is that how city centre commuting works in practice... not at all.

The move was a bit rude and caused a mild inconvenience, nothing more. 

Worth a shout and maybe an arm wraggle, but otherwise, move on. 

I'm struggling to see it even as a bit rude to be honest. That bloody camera of Vine's again makes it hard to judge distances and I may be doing him a dis-service, but that seems a wide junction and it took Vine quite a long time to come into conflict. The offset junction design including road markings actually seems to encourage essentially driving on the wrong side of the road, and the conflict was visible for 5 or 6 seconds. There is another issue that the cycle lane effectively puts Vine more into conflict with the bus than if there were no cycle lane - a car would actually be less impeded by the bus.

I know I get slightly irritated when lorries head onto roundabouts when they can see I am coming and I have to halt while I admire their load, but the reality is that at times, it is virtually impossible for large vehicles to pass through junctions without hindering other vehicles. As long as this is done knowingly and without forcing someone into sudden evasive action, I think it is something road users live with. I also apply the London factor, where traffic, and cyclists, can often be unrelenting and sheer weight of traffic leads to an element of push and shove - regardless of whether the Highway Code approves, it is a factor in urban traffic. Having driven into Brum yesterday, I observed all sorts of novel interpretations of lane use which as a driver I am told to accept and not react to.

Agree. There are situations to be upset about, but this is not one of them. There was plenty of distance and opportunity for Jeremy to back off a little and let the bus complete the turn.

The bigger issue is the vehicle following through behind the bus, they could have blindly followed the bus in making the turn, without being able to see the oncoming cyclist.

Also, Vine should stop wearing such a bright helmet light. That could have made him appear further away than he actually was.

I agree that this isnt the worst thing ive seen.
I think it's the hypocrisy. Drivers expect cyclist to adapt to their potentially dangerous driving; but are not willing to do the bare minimum to ensure the safety of cyclists.

I think that's unfair in this case on that bus driver, he wasn't causing anyone any danger by what he did, Vine, who must end up following his rides very angry & stressed all the time if stuff like that winds him up, is simply exploiting a situation 1000s of cyclists experience daily with no fuss, for his gain, again.

There's the old proverb of the boy who cried wolf, I forget what the lesson was.

Awavey wrote:

... who must end up following his rides very angry & stressed all the time if stuff like that winds him up...

"I channel my aggression, that's what I do;

Every day I ride the Tour de F- You!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgCqz3l33kU

Quite, Vine is currently embroiled in another marginal one where he takes the lane when it is at least arguable he could have let the no handed, inattentive, mobile phone-using white van man by. Oddly, few seem to want to argue that there is an obligation to take care around cyclists, and to allow them to clear junctions from the ASL.

It's alot less marginal than the bus, though it raises alot of interesting points about interaction of multiple road users & distraction. Really he needs to adopt the Frozen attitude sometimes, Let it Go.