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Tire Advice for Hard Knott Pass

by Simonboydfoley
Mon, Sep 05, 2016 12:16
14

Hi All
anybody got any tire advice for hard knott pass. I reccied it this weekend as I have to do it twice for Wasdale X triathlon. It was dry with a few wet sections and I almost killed myself sliding sideways when I hit the wet sections going down. Its a death trap. I'm not sure a Giant Propell will take 28 tires but with worn in Hutchinson Intensive 25 Tubeless I was all over the shop and terrified. I'm swapping from SPD SL to SPD aswell so I can use shoes with a decent off pedal grip as I'm sure it's going to be carnage at the end of the month.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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14 comments

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cqexbesd | 8 years ago
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For what it's worth I did it with Schwalbe Marathon Supremes (and carrying tent, sleeping bag etc). It was almost dry though. I had no trouble - from the tyres at least, no comment on my legs.

Coming down the other side several cars and a motorcyclists pulled over to let me past though 1

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vonhelmet | 8 years ago
1 like

You'd need to be doing about 200mph to aquaplane on a bike.

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BBB | 8 years ago
1 like

Schwalbe One tubeless in the widest size that fits in your frame at the lowest pressure you can get away with.

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racingcondor | 8 years ago
1 like

Not sure if it's still true but the guy who used to hold the record for the Fred Whitton was a fell runner. He just got off and ran over the ridiculous bits.

You can train to ride up to but down, especially in the wet is best walked in my opinion, the rutted surface and tight corners are bad enough in good conditions but become outright dangerous in anything else.

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Scotbloc replied to racingcondor | 8 years ago
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racingcondor wrote:

Not sure if it's still true but the guy who used to hold the record for the Fred Whitton was a fell runner. He just got off and ran over the ridiculous bits.

Was his name Froome?

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racingcondor replied to Scotbloc | 8 years ago
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Scotbloc wrote:
racingcondor wrote:

Not sure if it's still true but the guy who used to hold the record for the Fred Whitton was a fell runner. He just got off and ran over the ridiculous bits.

Was his name Froome?

Brad something I think, he remembered his bike... 3

OP - Great advice in this thread so far. Hope you work something out and have a dry ride on the day.

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Kendalred replied to racingcondor | 8 years ago
1 like

racingcondor wrote:
Scotbloc wrote:
racingcondor wrote:

Not sure if it's still true but the guy who used to hold the record for the Fred Whitton was a fell runner. He just got off and ran over the ridiculous bits.

Was his name Froome?

Brad something I think, he remembered his bike... 3 OP - Great advice in this thread so far. Hope you work something out and have a dry ride on the day.

You're probably thinking of Rob Jebb, who has the current record of 5.47. The man is a machine, not only a superb cyclist, but top class fell runner. Awesome.

I did the Fred in May on Vredestein Fortezza Senso Xtreme Weather tyres (which might sound swanky but are fairly bog standard all weather tyres with good puncture protection. I also used 50/34 with 11/32 and SPD's (as normal). the most confidence inspiring aspect though was the hydro disc brakes, which of course may not be an option, but i've done it on rim brakes no problem. Well, I say no problem, I mean no problem other than the pain of ascending and the wild-eyed fear of the descent!

 

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Simonboydfoley | 8 years ago
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Thanks for the advice guys ... I've gone for;
50/34 Chainring (my 53/39 was not enough)
11/32 cassette (my 12/28 was not enough)

I am swapping SPD SL's for SPD so I can use mtb shoes that I can walk in and make it easier to mount the pedals if i come off. Some people have suggested speed play pedals which can be mounted either side as with MTB, but I'm not sure.

Then for tyres im sticking to 25 but I'll drop the psi.

As for tires now i have a dilemma ... I did find some continental 4 seasons tires that looked good. But those schwalbe ones also look good and get a good write up for grip in the wet despite no tread. I read somewhere that compound is more important for wet grip than tread for road tyres because they are soo thin to make tread patterns work.

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Dnnnnnn replied to Simonboydfoley | 8 years ago
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Simonboydfoley wrote:

grip in the wet despite no tread. I read somewhere that compound is more important for wet grip than tread for road tyres because they are soo thin to make tread patterns work.

I believe this is correct. Tread on (normal, as opposed to off-road) car tyres is for shifting water from under the tyres to avoid aquaplaning. I recall an advert claiming that a particular tyre's tread shifted 8 pints per second or something like that. Bicycle road tyres aren't wide enough, and the forces of movement generally insufficient, to cause aquaplaning. 

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fukawitribe replied to Dnnnnnn | 8 years ago
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Duncann wrote:

Simonboydfoley wrote:

grip in the wet despite no tread. I read somewhere that compound is more important for wet grip than tread for road tyres because they are soo thin to make tread patterns work.

I believe this is correct. Tread on (normal, as opposed to off-road) car tyres is for shifting water from under the tyres to avoid aquaplaning. I recall an advert claiming that a particular tyre's tread shifted 8 pints per second or something like that. Bicycle road tyres aren't wide enough, and the forces of movement generally insufficient, to cause aquaplaning. 

Mostly true I believe - some tyre manufacturers have reported evidence that some tread can help with grip on certain surfaces (ones which aren't completely flat) assuming the tyre carcass and pressure are suitable to deform in surface features (i.e. not for preventing aqua-planing).

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700c | 8 years ago
1 like

Done it once. Walked a section both up and down! 2

Even in dry weather there's still water on the road. I would say this is one scenario where discs would be helpful.  

In terms of tyres, as wide and low pressure as you can get away with. I dont think different tyre compounds will make much difference - this is an extreme hill. Sounds like a tough triathlon.

Mountain bike then bike change?!

 

 

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allanj | 8 years ago
1 like

It's hard to prepare for Hardknott, going up and down is so hard.  I knew going up was going to be tough but even then it was like nothing else.  So steep, and busy too- lots of cars going nowehere but making picking a line/weaving about very hard.  Going down I hadn't thought of at all, luckily it was dry so no scary moments but hard on the hands/wrist/tired brain.  I went straight out and upgraded my pads and calipers after doing it!

Grip wise Schwalbe Ones would be my recommendation, nothing is going to be great with the combination of steepness and poor surface in the wet though.  Walking is the sensible option, but then not cycling over Hardknott is the sensible option so being sensible is not really what you are looking for!  

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Simon E | 8 years ago
1 like

I'd suggest that pressure is more important than the model of tyre. Try dropping 10 or 20 psi and see if you get more grip and confidence. I promise it won't hurt your rolling resistance.

Also, you must try to consciously relax and try to 'float' with the bike instead of gripping the bars and tensing up. It's easier said than done, especially on something so steep, so practice.

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jimhead | 8 years ago
1 like

To be honest I think I'd walk it down in the wet and probably fall on my arse even then.

Even in the dry I feel I can't stop the bike without leaving a trail of rubber a mile long.

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