New chain advice

gunswick wrote:

Has anyone tried using a chain bath to APPLY lube? Obviously wash and dry first so no degreaser in there! I'm thinking for something like Squirt and other wax based where the advice is to coat the chain and not wipe off the excess (that's what Squirt's packaging says!). I wonder if it would help really drive the lube into the rollers?

Yes, an experiment that I will not repeat. It puts far too much lube on and I spent weeks with it dribbling out everywhere and having to be wiped down again.

matthewn5 wrote:

gunswick wrote:

Has anyone tried using a chain bath to APPLY lube? Obviously wash and dry first so no degreaser in there! I'm thinking for something like Squirt and other wax based where the advice is to coat the chain and not wipe off the excess (that's what Squirt's packaging says!). I wonder if it would help really drive the lube into the rollers?

Yes, an experiment that I will not repeat. It puts far too much lube on and I spent weeks with it dribbling out everywhere and having to be wiped down again.

That's partially what did with the Muc-Off spray dry lube - it was getting everywhere (and I mean EVERYWHERE) when I tried spraying it on the chain in situ. So I took it off, cleaned it in white spirit, dried it, then put it in a bag and sprayed inside until it was covered.

Unfortunately, I forgot about it, and by the time I took the chain out, something weird had happened and it was like the whole chain was covered in a layer of the stickiest sticky glue. I couldn't wipe any of it off as everything I used just stuck to the chain. Useless. Had to clean it all again.

gunswick wrote:

Has anyone tried using a chain bath to APPLY lube? Obviously wash and dry first so no degreaser in there! I'm thinking for something like Squirt and other wax based where the advice is to coat the chain and not wipe off the excess (that's what Squirt's packaging says!). I wonder if it would help really drive the lube into the rollers?

It may be what the packaging says, but if you don't wipe it off you have a lot more stuff to brush off. Also sticks to your cassette and chainrings.

The important bit to be lubed is the inside of the chain, not the outside. And for that, some heat and multiple passes for the first application works perfectly.

But what do I know, I've only been using Squirt for over a year now over thousands of miles in all sorts of conditions.

allanj wrote:

I remember asking a question about chain cleaning and maintenance on this site once.

 

It degenerated a bit then as well (though my question was very reasonable ), I've just about recovered.

 

Several similar threads later it looks like little has changed- why does this make people so irate?

Unfortunatly - a little bit like the helmet and disc brake debacles and, to a lesser degree, sock height - chain lubrication is a religion... or is it a dog poo and you stepped in it.

Nick T wrote:

Do you think it's worth the risk when there's better products on the market? Would you claim it's fine to use a chain degreaser to fix a siezed lock? I do plenty of things in my maintenance that I wouldn't ever tell others to do over the Internet because while I might know what I'm doing, things get muddled up and misinterpreted by others with less experience. So my advice, don't put WD40 anywhere near your bike, or chain. As for your HIV analogy, I really don't know what to say to that. 

Sorry, it was only an analogy. I couldn't come up with one to better illustrate what seems to me to be a slightly irrational approach.

WD and an old t-shirt works for me, I don't need a 'better' product. If someone misinterprets my suggestion that's not a reason for me not for respond to the OP's request. Others may wish to follow the advice in GCN's chain cleaning video.

userfriendly wrote:

Also, Sheldon's site isn't the final wisdom to end all wisdom when it comes to bike tech. As Sergio points out above, for the use of certain lubricants (i.e. wax-based, like 'Squirt') you *have* to completely degrease the chain first. And it's worth it because 'Squirt' is an excellent lube, not just for your dry weather best bike.

The key to the best way of applying it is incidentally the same as for factory grease: heat. Take the completely degreased and dried chain and put it on a radiator, wait for it to warm up and apply the wax-based lube. Wait a bit till it's soaked through, turn the chain over and apply again. Repeat for another one or two applications.

After doing that once, all you ever need to do throughout the life of that chain is to lightly brush off the dirt (it never really sticks as would be the case with any other lube) and re-apply once (on the bike, no need to put it on the radiator again).

Your reward is a drivetrain completely free of that nasty destructive black gunk typical with conventional lubes, which means less time spent on cleaning and maintenance, and a longer life of all drivetrain components.

I regularly get asked if I've put on a new chain, no matter how long it's been on the bike.

Really? That's amazing.. I'd be up for a bit of fettling like this!

peted76 wrote:

userfriendly wrote:

Also, Sheldon's site isn't the final wisdom to end all wisdom when it comes to bike tech. As Sergio points out above, for the use of certain lubricants (i.e. wax-based, like 'Squirt') you *have* to completely degrease the chain first. And it's worth it because 'Squirt' is an excellent lube, not just for your dry weather best bike.

The key to the best way of applying it is incidentally the same as for factory grease: heat. Take the completely degreased and dried chain and put it on a radiator, wait for it to warm up and apply the wax-based lube. Wait a bit till it's soaked through, turn the chain over and apply again. Repeat for another one or two applications.

After doing that once, all you ever need to do throughout the life of that chain is to lightly brush off the dirt (it never really sticks as would be the case with any other lube) and re-apply once (on the bike, no need to put it on the radiator again).

Your reward is a drivetrain completely free of that nasty destructive black gunk typical with conventional lubes, which means less time spent on cleaning and maintenance, and a longer life of all drivetrain components.

I regularly get asked if I've put on a new chain, no matter how long it's been on the bike.

Really? That's amazing.. I'd be up for a bit of fettling like this!

I tried Squirt. I liked it fresh on the chain, but it would always peel off in lumps, and I'd have to reapply after every 50 miles - it didn't even last most club runs. On reading this, maybe I was missing out on the heating element of application, as I definitely degreased it enough.

Had a total 'mare with the Muc-Off spray dry lube - left the chain to soak in it and it never dried out - was so tacky, the chain stuck to itself, my fingers, and everything it touched.

dottigirl wrote:

peted76 wrote:

userfriendly wrote:

Also, Sheldon's site isn't the final wisdom to end all wisdom when it comes to bike tech. As Sergio points out above, for the use of certain lubricants (i.e. wax-based, like 'Squirt') you *have* to completely degrease the chain first. And it's worth it because 'Squirt' is an excellent lube, not just for your dry weather best bike.

The key to the best way of applying it is incidentally the same as for factory grease: heat. Take the completely degreased and dried chain and put it on a radiator, wait for it to warm up and apply the wax-based lube. Wait a bit till it's soaked through, turn the chain over and apply again. Repeat for another one or two applications.

After doing that once, all you ever need to do throughout the life of that chain is to lightly brush off the dirt (it never really sticks as would be the case with any other lube) and re-apply once (on the bike, no need to put it on the radiator again).

Your reward is a drivetrain completely free of that nasty destructive black gunk typical with conventional lubes, which means less time spent on cleaning and maintenance, and a longer life of all drivetrain components.

I regularly get asked if I've put on a new chain, no matter how long it's been on the bike.

Really? That's amazing.. I'd be up for a bit of fettling like this!

I tried Squirt. I liked it fresh on the chain, but it would always peel off in lumps, and I'd have to reapply after every 50 miles - it didn't even last most club runs. On reading this, maybe I was missing out on the heating element of application, as I definitely degreased it enough.

Had a total 'mare with the Muc-Off spray dry lube - left the chain to soak in it and it never dried out - was so tacky, the chain stuck to itself, my fingers, and everything it touched.

I can't be bothered with wet (or dry) lube anymore since I started using Squirt. And yes, the heat for the initial application is important. You wipe off the excess anyway, you only want it on the roller-plate interface etc., i.e. deep inside.

I reapply every other ride, which probably equates to about every 100 miles give or take. My cue is when it stops being nice 'n quiet. I brush or wipe off the dirt if there is any, then just put a drop or two on top of each of the rollers and let it soak in before wiping off any excess and turning the chain a bit to get to the next bit to be lubed.

A mate who tried it too said he was getting a rusty chain after wet rides, but I've not had that problem at all, and I've been in some deluges. I think the crucial bit is to get the initial application right: heat and multiple passes. Afterwards it's all painfree and shiny goodness.

Nick T wrote:

Never put WD40 anywhere near your bike, let alone on the chain for goodness sake

Is that one of 'the rules' ?

Simon E wrote:

Nick T wrote:

Never put WD40 anywhere near your bike, let alone on the chain for goodness sake

Is that one of 'the rules' ?

WD - good for cleaning but it breaks down other lubricants, so as you state on a rag and then wipe the chain is probably okay as you can wipe off the residue easily enough afterwards. 

A NO NO is squirting WD into a chain or soaking chain in WD as when 'normal lube' is applied on top of any wd residue it will dillute it.  Ergo it won't last as long and everyone knows the lube/grease you can't see on a chain is the stuff you want to stay in place.

Personally I run my chain every or every other ride through some kitchen roll (instead of a rag), it picks up all the excess grease and most surface dirt, doesn't disintegrate or leave any bits on the chain, I find it very effective routine. It allows me to 'check' the chain for bits, hair and amount of grease left on the chain. Takes about two mins to do. I've also got some 'Purple Harry' pipe cleaners which are made for getting inbetween the cogs of the cassette, if I see any 'bits' lurking in the cogs, a quick shimmy with a pipe cleaners gets em out. 

I might squirt chain cleaner through my chain and cassette and give it a thourough clean once every two to four weeks dependant on riding and conditions.

Simon E wrote:

Nick T wrote:

Never put WD40 anywhere near your bike, let alone on the chain for goodness sake

Is that one of 'the rules' ?

Oh dear ...

Simon E wrote:

Nick T wrote:

Never put WD40 anywhere near your bike, let alone on the chain for goodness sake

Is that one of 'the rules' ?

its a penetrating oil, it lubricates to a degree but it's not a lubricant. It's purpose is to penetrate, in ways that no other oil is able to - if other oils were able to spread like WD40s compound is, there wouldn't have been any need to spend money developing it. Sure, you can clean a chain off with it, but your chain touches your cassette, your jockey wheels, these touch your freewheel, your derailers, your hubs.. Places you really don't want a penetrating oil to work its way in and break down your greases. 

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

So not one of "the rules" but certainly a rule worth sticking to. 

Nick T wrote:

its a penetrating oil, it lubricates to a degree but it's not a lubricant. It's purpose is to penetrate, in ways that no other oil is able to - if other oils were able to spread like WD40s compound is, there wouldn't have been any need to spend money developing it. Sure, you can clean a chain off with it, but your chain touches your cassette, your jockey wheels, these touch your freewheel, your derailers, your hubs.. Places you really don't want a penetrating oil to work its way in and break down your greases. 

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

So not one of "the rules" but certainly a rule worth sticking to. 

Naturally, if you squirt a degreaser/dispersant/solvent like WD40 directly into bearings it will not end happily. But do you really think that a squirt onto a rag used to rub the chain gets will get into the jockey wheels and wreck the freehub? Sounds like FUD to me, a bit like suggesting that if I shake the hands of someone who's shaken the hand of someone else who's shaken the hand of someone with HIV I could get it too.

WD40 is not a chain lubricant but it works fine for cleaning things in the manner I described.

[/quote]

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

[/quote]

Ahem yes it is, check out the company history here.

http://wd40.com/cool-stuff/history

Spangly Shiny wrote:

 

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

[/quote]

Ahem yes it is, check out the company history here.

http://wd40.com/cool-stuff/history

[/quote]

its a cool story, isn't it? Shame it's just s bit of marketing blurb, your very own link explains that it was intended to prevent corrosion on steel tanks rather than displace any water. It was pretty rubbish at that by all accounts, which is why it's sold for completely different purposes. The WD40 thing was tacked on later. 

Nick T wrote:

Spangly Shiny wrote:

 

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

Ahem yes it is, check out the company history here.

http://wd40.com/cool-stuff/history

[/quote]

its a cool story, isn't it? Shame it's just s bit of marketing blurb, your very own link explains that it was intended to prevent corrosion on steel tanks rather than displace any water. It was pretty rubbish at that by all accounts, which is why it's sold for completely different purposes. The WD40 thing was tacked on later. 

[/quote]

WD 40 is indeed a water disperant, that is how it prevents corrosion. By penetrating between the substrate and water contaminating it. A very similar  substance (PX28) is used in the military to do the same job i.e. disperse water. Used on helicopters in particular to clear water after wet weather flying or even a wash.

Spangly Shiny wrote:

 

 Also, the water dispersal properties aren't what it was developed for, and the 40 isn't because it was the 40th attempt either. 

[/quote]

Ahem yes it is, check out the company history here.

http://wd40.com/cool-stuff/history

[/quote]

In the same way that Chanel No5 was their fifth attempt at creating a chain cleaner?

Nick T wrote:

Never put WD40 anywhere near your bike, let alone on the chain for goodness sake

But what he's suggesting is using it as a cleaner, not a lubricant. Nowt wrong with that. It's also good for using to displace water (guess what the WD stands for?) before lubing properly. I prefer GT85 however.

You certainly don't want either near your brakes, and you certainly don't want to use either as a chain lubricant, that much I agree with!