- News
- Reviews
- Bikes
- Accessories
- Accessories - misc
- Computer mounts
- Bags
- Bar ends
- Bike bags & cases
- Bottle cages
- Bottles
- Cameras
- Car racks
- Child seats
- Computers
- Glasses
- GPS units
- Helmets
- Lights - front
- Lights - rear
- Lights - sets
- Locks
- Mirrors
- Mudguards
- Racks
- Pumps & CO2 inflators
- Puncture kits
- Reflectives
- Smart watches
- Stands and racks
- Trailers
- Clothing
- Components
- Bar tape & grips
- Bottom brackets
- Brake & gear cables
- Brake & STI levers
- Brake pads & spares
- Brakes
- Cassettes & freewheels
- Chains
- Chainsets & chainrings
- Derailleurs - front
- Derailleurs - rear
- Forks
- Gear levers & shifters
- Groupsets
- Handlebars & extensions
- Headsets
- Hubs
- Inner tubes
- Pedals
- Quick releases & skewers
- Saddles
- Seatposts
- Stems
- Wheels
- Tyres
- Health, fitness and nutrition
- Tools and workshop
- Miscellaneous
- Tubeless valves
- Buyers Guides
- Features
- Forum
- Recommends
- Podcast
forum
Are you better than my local bike shop?
OK - warning up front this is a rear derailleur noise question. I'm a pretty good bike wrench (as the Americans would say) but neither I nor my local bike shop can figure this one out. I've searched everywhere and can't find the same problem online. Don't seem to be able to search cc forums which is odd but it didn't throw up anything via Google anyway.
Anyway - I have noise on my rear cassette. All sprockets, but worse in the central few. 105 5700 cassette, shifters, derailleur. Currently new SRAM chain but same with original 105 chain.
It's coming from the jockey wheels - You the derailleur "kicking" (jolting) several times per revolution. Only way to stop it seems to be to slacken the chain a bit by hand by pulling the derailleur arm down. Just because the noise is the kicking from the derailleur doesn't necessarily mean the derailleur is at fault though. So far I've tried:
- New cassette and original cassette
- New SRAM chain and original 5700 chain (meshed with original cassette)
- Replaced the hanger and had alignment checked at shop
- Double-checked chain length using online calculator.
- New freehub bearings, and when that didn't work, new wheels
- Checked frame straight (carbon, but checked anyway)
- Full strip and lube of jockey wheels which are in excellent order
- Put on a spare very-little-used Dura Ace rear derailleur. Same problem.
- Messing with the B-screw - doesn't actually seem to do anything at all.
All I can think is to try a new shimano chain, but I feel like I'm pouring money down the sink at the moment and getting nowhere. Any suggestions on what else to check?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
Latest Forum Topics
Latest Comments
- a1white 4 hours 48 min ago
Absolutely loving the look of this. What a beauty!
- David9694 4 hours 54 min ago
First para bit of a bitter pill. When you're in a public service with an enforcement power, people will try in all sorts of ways, to play you. You...
- richliv 5 hours 9 min ago
Dunno if this thread is really still live as its dated 2021 but I'll assume its reanimated so......
- wtjs 5 hours 25 min ago
What's really important for us is that incidents involving cyclists are reported to us," she said. "We know from working with various cycling...
- ktache 5 hours 45 min ago
Torx is the future, it will slowly replace hex, much as my bicycle now lacks 10mm spanner heads, or screw heads, (apart from the JIS Shimano...
- ktache 6 hours 3 min ago
The better half was driving us down the M3 as it was becoming a "smart" motorway, 50mph average enforcement, everyone at the same speed, no lane...
- slitemere 6 hours 40 min ago
So sad that there is no 11 speed cable operated brake option what about the retro market for people who want to update their old rim brake frames?...
- Gbjbanjs 8 hours 40 min ago
I think you are right about being too close to the vehicle in front. However, the fact that the lead rider had to take evasive action to avoid a...
- anke2 8 hours 52 min ago
Check their website. These "inventors" run a social media agency and seem to make most (startup) money from a business selling pictures/movies of...
- mdavidford 8 hours 59 min ago
You said you agree with Councillor Bates, whose case is that there is £80k of active travel budget for Dyffryn Ceiriog and no active travel...
Add new comment
41 comments
This video gives you an idea of the noise, but it's hard to actually see the derailleur kicking in this video as I can't hold my phone still enough! The kicking is likely just to be the symptom of an issue elswhere anyway, not the cause.
https://youtu.be/zog7S5MtVzA
this from the CUK forum - I've edited out the bits about how great beards and sandals are, which campsites in mid-Wales open in January, and how now we're 84 and 85 we're finding crossing the Dolomites a bit challenging.
Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist... or maybe I'm a rubbish mechanic... but I've always had problems in aligning the rear mech hanger for "perfect" shifting.
Even with a brand-new rear mech hanger (and having replaced an old rear mech), I needed to use my Park Tools "hanger alignment gauge"... and even then, using it as-per the instructions, I couldn't quite get it perfect. Until now!!! [:D]
---
I'm not sure if you will find this tip helpful, or if you'll roll your eyes like I'm teaching you to suck eggs! But in case it helps... (and assuming you've trued the rear wheel, and got the rear mech hanger roughly straightened and want to fine-tune it), here goes...
---
What I hadn't realised is that the rear mech doesn't keep the sprockets parallel with the cassette as it moves between every gear -- it adjusts for the chain path. So, the top sprocket should be angled slightly inwards when aligned with the smallest gear of the cassette, and vice versa.
With the chain on the central front chainring (or the "main" one), there should be a rear gear you can select where any sideways movement ("crossing the chain") is minimised or eliminated. The top sprocket of the rear mech SHOULD align perfectly with THAT gear.
To help, I got a length of cotton thread and weighted it at both ends with clothes-pegs. I removed the chain, temporarily slackened off the B-tension screw (so the top mech sprocket was touching the cassette), and hung the cotton thread between the front chainrings, and to one side of THAT rear gear.
Moving the rear mech to THAT gear position (by hand) I visually gauged how well aligned the sprocket was the line of cotton thread. (When bending the mech hanger, it helps to do so along only two perpendicular axes -- parallel and perpendicular to the line of cotton thread.) I made a mental note of how out-of-alignment each axis was, and used the Park Tool alignment gauge to correspondingly bend the hanger. Then re-checked the alignment, repeating as necessary.
A quick re-calibration of the rear mech (limit screws, barrel adjusters) and... bingo bango! The best shifting I've ever had on any bike everrrrr!!! [:shock:]
-----
I'd love to hear what you all think. Is this obvious stuff? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?! Has this actually helped anyone?!
I've read that through a few times and I think I understand what they did - aligned top jockey wheel perfectly to the cassette sprocket that gives the straightest chain line to the main front ring even if it means the hanger isn't straight??
Is that how you interpret it? If so I will give it a try - and thanks for the info.
My affected bike is as quiet as you'd expect when on the small ring at the front.
Bottom bracket bearings? I have had a similar problem, swapped jockey wheels, cassette, chain and rear mech only to find that one bottom bracket bearing was slightly rough and didnt like being put under load, new bearings, noise went away.
Thanks welsh boy - yes I thought this too, but it turns silently when not attached to the chain. I can see it could generate noise if bearings worn, but not how it could cause flicking on rear derailleur. There is no play in the bottom bracket/crank arms.
I have similar on a bike with Ultegra. I've swapped derailleur, cassette and wheels but it's still noisy. Same as yours - I can see the derailleur 'flick' in the gears that its noisy in but I have been able to improve it slightly by adjusting the b screw (I think I added chain tension) but it's still the noisiest drivetrain on any of my bikes. I'm resigned to having to live with it 🙁
That was basically my bike shop's advice - it's normal to have some noise, live with it. I still paid them, but it was a cop-out. There must be a reason for it and I'm going to find it if it kills me...
I know it's going to be something stupid that I haven't thought of.
weird. all I can think is it's some fluke resonant virbration with the frame. try holding various bit of the frame whilst spinning crank to see if it damps the noise at all.
other than that - make sure top jockey wheel has got the side-to-side float. check there is no play in the cassette on freehub, I once had a bad rattle that was due to that, packed it out with a spacer.
Thanks HoarseMann. It's definitely drivechain related - like I say you can see the derailleur arm flicking/kicking about 1mm which seems to be the issue (or at least is the current issue - before it was just noise and no obvious kicking).
Jockeywheels are correct way round, and have double checked direction of the tension jockey wheel.
Play on the cassette - I did wonder I must admit - It's a 10speed cassette on an 11 speed mavic aksium hub. There is a TINY bit of play in the cassette but it happens regardless of whether I use 1, 1.5 or 2 spacers. It's not play of the cassette up and down the shaft of the freehub, it just rocks less than half a mm regardless of spacer numbers, so I think it's just the natural play in the (new) freehub/axle bearings I can feel. update: when clamped in the dropouts, even this play disappears, so this must just be normal bearing play.
I'm wondering about chain length; I haven't tried changing that yet. Is there a more reliable calculator than https://www.bergfreunde.eu/chain-length-calculator/
Could be either too slack and the angle through the jokey wheels is a problem, or too loose. Like I say, pulling down on the arm of the derailleur (less angle, looser chain) does stop the noise. update: checked the length using the large/large+2 links sheldon brown method and it's bang on that way too. So don't think it's chain length.
Oh and I replaced all cables too!
Update:Aaaaaaaaaaargh!
quelle horreur! just watched the vid - you can't live with that.
maybe it's possessed? a light misting of holy water and a sermon should sort it?
it does sound a bit like the cassette rattle on the freehub body that I had a while ago. I'm wondering if it's possible to remove the freehub/cassette interface from the equation by taking a thickish old rag (pipe foam, or bubble wrap even?) and wrapping it (jamming it) between the back of the cassette and spokes/hub, just enough to stop it freewheeling and preventing any cassette/freehub wobble...
Will give it a go, thanks HoarseMann. Just ruled out crankset wear.
Pages