Spares & tools - what do you carry and how?

bobrayner wrote:

We're all infuenced by things that broke in the past - so we go out with tools and spares to fix the last fault, not the next one

I once had a crank arm shear off mid-ride, but I've never gone as far as carrying a spare one. 

You've just reminded me of a long ride home I had as a kid .... worn cotter pin.  It finally gave way on the incline from Hathersage to Sheffield...and from thereon it was a long freewheel / walk through to Rotherham... Must have been 11 or 12.  At least it wasn't raining.

Whose idea was it to put a cotter pin in the crank mechanism, anyway?  Any other shit engineering ideas out there?

Oh yes! Cotter pins were so frustrating. (Even worse than the square-tapered crank interface). I think my childhood Raleigh had one; the tendency to work loose under load was countered by the tendency of all Raleigh parts to rust until they're immovable.

BIGWATTS wrote:

Pump (old Lezene one with flexy tube - valve stem saver)

Do you mean valve core remover? I found the leyzene pumps were excellent at inflating tyres without bending the valve core, and then removing the valve core with the flexible hose and letting all the air out once the tyre had been inflated.

No is the simple answer.

I suspect there are more now because an 11 or 12spd chain is much thinner and lighter than a 5 speed chain from the 1970s....

Of the 2 chains I have broken one was a 5 speed back around 1977 (picked up a piece of wire riding through long grass) and the other was a 10 speed quick link failure about 5 years ago

I suspect there are more now because an 11 or 12spd chain is much thinner and lighter than a 5 speed chain from the 1970s....

That may be true as well as charmingly patronising, but is not relevant, as the 'never broken a chain' applies to the 80s....20s. Since I took the car off the road at the first lockdown, I've done 6 100k each way trips up to the Lakes with a well loaded trailer, walking and camping equipment etc. That's a fair bit of tension on that chain! The comparison you're looking for is against the 9 speed chains and groups which I have standardised on since it was Ultegra but is now perfectly acceptable Sora. So if these El Cheapo chains are indeed much less likely to snap than the chocolate 12 speeds, then my decision was correct!

Nobody is claiming your 'decision' is not correct. You have amply demonstrated exactly what I said - that thinner, lighter, modern chains tend to be more prone to failure, especially if they are not regularly maintained or replaced well before they are worn to limits. But, I think actual snapping of chains due to chain failure is less prevelant. In my experience it tends to be misuse (regarding front shifting) twisting thinner modern chains rather than them actually snapping (despite my previous post regarding a mate whose chain actually snapped last Thursday night).

Modern chains are much more durable in terms of wear than their earlier counterparts, mainly due to design and materials developments. They are designed to withstand very high loads before snapping, but as I said, my personal experience is that I have seen more modern chains fail by way of a link getting twisted due to a ham fisted front shift than I ever saw on older, heavier, thicker plated chains of many moons ago.

So for me, this is more down to user error whilst using a superior chain (in terms of performance). Just like a badly maintained chain actually snapping, which is rarer.

These articles make for interesting reading one of which shows just how much more durable (in terms of elongation and wear) chains from 10spd onwards are compared to older 9spd and below chains.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-best-bicycle-chain-durability-and-ef...

https://www.velonews.com/gear/are-broken-chains-a-thing-of-the-past/

what do you mean by misuse of chains though ? other than cross gearing and its arguable how bad that is, what else can you do to chain to misuse it ?

I was wondering if there might be more chance of chains of lower quality metal hitting the market thesedays, so fatigue failures are more frequent.

Awavey wrote:

what do you mean by misuse of chains though ? other than cross gearing and its arguable how bad that is, what else can you do to chain to misuse it ?

Awavey wrote:

what do you mean by misuse of chains though ? other than cross gearing and its arguable how bad that is, what else can you do to chain to misuse it ?

I was wondering if there might be more chance of chains of lower quality metal hitting the market thesedays, so fatigue failures are more frequent.

The chain get fall off the inner ring, get trapped between the chainset and frame and be twisted.

N

I've never had a chain fail due to fatigue, but I did have one that got twisted by becoming trapped, each time it went round the cassette it went down two gears, then up two gears.

Split the chain, ditched two links, used a quick link, back mobile again. Not something that could be done by pushing the jointing pin out and back again.

I have tried re using a pin in an emergency, (not my bike wrong size chain for my split link) but actually broke my chain tool trying to push a pin through that wasn't correctly aligned.

I mean not maintaining a chain and running it beyond its wear limit - which will increase the likelihood of an unshipping in normal use, and potential jam causing a bent link.

Or putting excessive force on it, say by shifting whilst standing up mashing the pedals. You must have come across riders who do that? I recall when Di2 came out a mate was saying how brilliant it was because you could shift whilst standing and climbing! Holy cow, can you imagine the strain that puts on a chain - a servo driving a front shift with you putting several hundred watts through the pedals?

You must also have heard those awful clanging and graunching sounds from someone who has no idea about proper shifting technique going into a steep climb? You know when people fail to back off momentarily when shifting? The guy who is in way too high a gear as the road rises up and then panics and tries to force his shifts before he comes to a grinding halt? Have you seen someone drop a chain doing that? Or getting a chain jam? I have.

Another issue is from a poorly set up derailleur, either front or rear causing the chain to unship. Riding in groups it is not uncommon to come across someone who has a bike that shifts less than optimally - a guy just a few weeks back had awful front shifting from a really badly fitted and adjusted front derailleur. He had no mechanical knowledge and had just kept riding it like that. I offered to adjust it for him so he brought it round - the derailleur was mounted about 1cm too high (definite potential to twist a chain excessively causing it to jam and bend a link), cable tension was wrong and the end stops weren't set correctly. He claimed it was supplied by Mike Ashley like that, and indeed there were no witness marks where it had been clamped to the frame showing that it had been moved.

Also a lack of maintenance regarding chain rings and cassette cogs - excessive wear of these can lead to miss-shifts and a jammed chain. I have seen several bent links caused by jammed chains - something which in my experience is more prevelant with thinner, lighter, more modern chains than it ever was with older, heavier chains.

I have seen several chain failures where one plate has managed to detach itself from the pin on one side leading to the chain snapping. It's purely my speculation but the importance of correctly fitting a joining pin cannot be over emphasised and I reckon many of these failures are because of incorrectly fitted joining pins, or people breaking and joining their chain using the same pin they pushed out. The article I linked to earlier shows why this is not a good idea and can lead to chain failure.

I suspect this is why Shimano eventually adopted quick links and started supplying them with a new chain - it is less likely to be incorrectly installed by a ham fisted home mechanic than a pin. However, the downside to these is that they say they should only be fitted once (well they would, wouldn't they?) and many will ignore that and break and refit their chain regularly using the split link which will eventually lead to wear and potential failure. I'm sure they are fine to be reused a number of times, but under a microscope I bet they can show the damage caused each time it is fitted/ removed.

Several studies have shown a scrupulously clean chain, with a good quality lube is the most important factor in extending chain life. I linked to an article showing just how much more life you can get from a 10spd (or greater) chain which demonstrated that. However, no mention was made of damaging a chain, the study was purely from a wear in normal use perspective.

Thats my take on it anyway.

At the risk of being perceived as patronising again, your method of pushing a pin partially out and reusing it is not best practice and creates a weakness in the chain at that point. Here is an extract from a Park Tool blog as to why;

Chain Installation - Derailleur Bikes explains why you shouldn't do it.

Some chains, including Shimano®, use chain rivets which are peened. This creates a "mushroom" effect at the ends of the rivets, which adds to the strength of the chain side plates. When a rivet is pressed even partially out, this peening is sheered off on the side pressed by the chain tool. If this rivet were reused, it would create a weak link at that rivet. In the image below, a Shimano® rivet is shown in an optical comparator, which magnifies the rivet. The original peening is seen at the bottom of the rivet. The top of rivet has the peening sheered off. This top section was pushed through the outer chain plate.
 

But I'm surprised no one has mentioned first aid?

Matter of opinion of course, but if you can fit it in a portable first aid kit, you don't need it anyway. I didn't take one on the Pennine Way, but I did have a tiny sewing kit so the needle does for pricking blisters along with a small amount of emulsifying ointment for chafing- you might need those on a bike tour.

First thing I always check I've packed is Piriton.

On really long rides (130 mile +) I'll take a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen, sometimes get an exercise induced headache on such rides....

if I get a bit of road rash I can carry on. Anything more serious and I let the ambulance crew use their kit!