Government to consider doubling penalty points for drivers caught on phone

pdw wrote:

Quote:

the law as it stands is a pretty good protection for all road users. The problem is, and, as stumps suggests, likely to remain in the future, a lack of enforcement by the police and CPS.

Really? As it stands you have to get caught using your phone 4 times in a 3 year period before you'd receive anything other than points and a small fine. Even with adequate enforcement, I'd say the law is far too lenient.

As I said above, the threat of a ban on the first offence might help focus people's minds, even in the absence of good enforcement.

The fine went up recently to £100

Would be interesting to see if this has made a difference -I guess not, so would agree with a further raising of the severity of punishment in principle

OldRidgeback wrote:

Oh and I'd ban hands free kits too since research shows they make no difference whatsoever. The risks are from the limitations of the human brain, which cannot perform complex tasks like driving and carrying out in depth conversation at the same time, despite what some people seem to think about multi tasking. We are limited by evolution.

Some research also shows that talking on hands free is very similar to talking to someone in the car, should we ban that too?

I think the police have enough to deal with enforcing phone use with hands, let's get that right first?

I do agree that until the public perceive it as on a par with drink driving, people will carry on. There was a very effective campaign showing the consequences of drink driving, maybe they should do a similar one for mobiles?

sim1515 wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

Oh and I'd ban hands free kits too since research shows they make no difference whatsoever. The risks are from the limitations of the human brain, which cannot perform complex tasks like driving and carrying out in depth conversation at the same time, despite what some people seem to think about multi tasking. We are limited by evolution.

Some research also shows that talking on hands free is very similar to talking to someone in the car, should we ban that too?

I think the police have enough to deal with enforcing phone use with hands, let's get that right first?

I do agree that until the public perceive it as on a par with drink driving, people will carry on. There was a very effective campaign showing the consequences of drink driving, maybe they should do a similar one for mobiles?

The research carried out by the TRL shows that the driver talking with other occupants in a car is not the same as when the driver is talking on the phone. There is similar research also saying the same. I've not heard anything saying otherwise and I do get a lot of this information at work.

Basically, when a driver is talking with someone sitting in the car, the driver will stop talking when something occurs in the driving scenario that requires additional brain processing power. This is not the case when the driver is talking on the phone and for various psychological reasons, which include visual clues and facial expressions that cannot be transmitted through a phone.

There is a lot of research saying hands free kits are no use. The TRL released a report saying so not so long ago and you can find that on the TRL website.

The problem with regard to phone use while driving is linked to the human brain's limitations in regard to how much it can process at any one time, rather like an old computer being tasked with a number of complex functions simultaneously and resulting in that rather annoying hourglass appearing and turning round and round and round and round for an undefined period.

Yes, there is a risk of inattention for drivers, say when children are fighting in the backseat, but that's another issue altogether and I somehow doubt the carrying of children in vehicles would be considered either logical or desirable.

OldRidgeback wrote:

The research carried out by the TRL shows that the driver talking with other occupants in a car is not the same as when the driver is talking on the phone. There is similar research also saying the same. I've not heard anything saying otherwise and I do get a lot of this information at work.

Basically, when a driver is talking with someone sitting in the car, the driver will stop talking when something occurs in the driving scenario that requires additional brain processing power. This is not the case when the driver is talking on the phone and for various psychological reasons, which include visual clues and facial expressions that cannot be transmitted through a phone.

There is a lot of research saying hands free kits are no use. The TRL released a report saying so not so long ago and you can find that on the TRL website.

The problem with regard to phone use while driving is linked to the human brain's limitations in regard to how much it can process at any one time, rather like an old computer being tasked with a number of complex functions simultaneously and resulting in that rather annoying hourglass appearing and turning round and round and round and round for an undefined period.

Yes, there is a risk of inattention for drivers, say when children are fighting in the backseat, but that's another issue altogether and I somehow doubt the carrying of children in vehicles would be considered either logical or desirable.

I believe that there is contrasting research which suggests no difference between hands free and passengers, the University of Michigan I think. I think I've had this discussion before so I'm not going to get into it again, you can just read it here: http://road.cc/content/news/70508-police-campaign-wales-sees-1000-driver...

My real point is that using hands free is illegal at the moment yet lots of people still do it, it's good that the government has recognised they need to do more to deter people but as others have said, enforcing it seems to be an issue. If enforcing that is an issue, how successful do you think it would be trying to enforce a ban on hands free? With the cuts that everyone is talking about, I think they should concentrate on what they can hope to achieve rather than introducing things which seem much harder to enforce.

I think harsher penalties could help if they are widely know and hopefully enforced but I think that changing the public perception to view it as on a par with drink driving would definitely help too.

sim1515 wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

The research carried out by the TRL shows that the driver talking with other occupants in a car is not the same as when the driver is talking on the phone. There is similar research also saying the same. I've not heard anything saying otherwise and I do get a lot of this information at work.

Basically, when a driver is talking with someone sitting in the car, the driver will stop talking when something occurs in the driving scenario that requires additional brain processing power. This is not the case when the driver is talking on the phone and for various psychological reasons, which include visual clues and facial expressions that cannot be transmitted through a phone.

There is a lot of research saying hands free kits are no use. The TRL released a report saying so not so long ago and you can find that on the TRL website.

The problem with regard to phone use while driving is linked to the human brain's limitations in regard to how much it can process at any one time, rather like an old computer being tasked with a number of complex functions simultaneously and resulting in that rather annoying hourglass appearing and turning round and round and round and round for an undefined period.

Yes, there is a risk of inattention for drivers, say when children are fighting in the backseat, but that's another issue altogether and I somehow doubt the carrying of children in vehicles would be considered either logical or desirable.

I believe that there is contrasting research which suggests no difference between hands free and passengers, the University of Michigan I think. I think I've had this discussion before so I'm not going to get into it again, you can just read it here: http://road.cc/content/news/70508-police-campaign-wales-sees-1000-driver...

My real point is that using hands free is illegal at the moment yet lots of people still do it, it's good that the government has recognised they need to do more to deter people but as others have said, enforcing it seems to be an issue. If enforcing that is an issue, how successful do you think it would be trying to enforce a ban on hands free? With the cuts that everyone is talking about, I think they should concentrate on what they can hope to achieve rather than introducing things which seem much harder to enforce.

I think harsher penalties could help if they are widely know and hopefully enforced but I think that changing the public perception to view it as on a par with drink driving would definitely help too.

Well that does go against the TRL's research but I agree it's not worth falling out over.
In my own experience, when I'm driving and in a conversation, I'll stop talking when I encounter a situation that requires me to think about it. That is pretty much what the TRL research says also.
Back in the 30s when car radios were first introduced, there was some debate as to whether these posed a threat to safety due to the risks from distraction.

OldRidgeback wrote:

Well that does go against the TRL's research but I agree it's not worth falling out over.
In my own experience, when I'm driving and in a conversation, I'll stop talking when I encounter a situation that requires me to think about it. That is pretty much what the TRL research says also.
Back in the 30s when car radios were first introduced, there was some debate as to whether these posed a threat to safety due to the risks from distraction.

In my experience, I too stop talking when I encounter a situation, but I would do the same if the person I was talking to is in the car or not. I know there is some evidence to show that passengers can stop the conversation too recognising the danger but it's very subjective, a non driver (e.g. a child) may not know when to stop, or if they are in the back. I guess it's this subjectiveness which has led people to question it, coupled with the fact that there are so many distractions in a car which are legal (such as 1930s radios!) so lines are very hard to draw. One has been drawn with mobiles, they are dangerous and now illegal, hopefully they'll get people to stop using them!

stumps wrote:

We dont have enough cops to go round, this govt has cut, cut and cut again so that we cant afford anymore cops. My force is having to save over £50m, could you imagine how many cops that could provide.

Automatic 6 month ban for using the phone is the only answer not doubling the points.

Everyone knows that harsher penalties won't work without enforcement but at least someone is talking about it.

For the cuts you can blame the millionaire muppets in Downing Street and all the selfish b*stards that voted for them.

Simon E wrote:

For the cuts you can blame the millionaire muppets in Downing Street and all the selfish b*stards that voted for them.

I think you'll find that the necessity for the cuts was due to the idiotic muppets prior to 2010 who wrecked the economy (just as they did the last time they had power in the 70's). I blame the foolish wankers who voted for *them*.

Staggeringly Labour even joked about the situation in writing the infamous "there's no money left" note.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor

Joeinpoole wrote:

I think you'll find that the necessity for the cuts was due to the idiotic muppets prior to 2010 who wrecked the economy (just as they did the last time they had power in the 70's).

Not only did they wreck the UK economy, they seem to have managed to do it in virtually every other country in the world at the same time even though those other countries had their own muppets in charge. I wonder if our muppets knew they had such global power...

Joeinpoole wrote:

I think you'll find that the necessity for the cuts was due to the idiotic muppets prior to 2010 who wrecked the economy (just as they did the last time they had power in the 70's). I blame the foolish wankers who voted for *them*.

Ha ha! Nothing to do with the international banking crisis that affected the USA and most of Western Europe? Not that I think Blair & co. were lily white either.

The press lapped up the 'austerity' bollocks (as did much of the public, they're good like that) but if the Tories wanted to genuinely save us some money they didn't have to target the less well off first while letting the super-rich and huge corporations smuggle vast amounts of money out of the country.

Back on topic, the reports I have read indicate that hands-free is almost as bad as hand-held. I'm sure I read that different parts of the brain were in use when compared to conversing with a passenger.

I think some people may be arguing in defence of their own behaviour rather than having a sound case to put forward; "I've done it and I am a capable and alert driver*, so..."

(* because everyone thinks they are)