Rider punctures at 80kph as saboteurs target Valleys Velo sportive

Interesting debate but in the end pointless because no one is going to get caught. After all we're cyclists and the cops won't give a dam.

Sad but it's all too often true.

Makes you think, may be some hight protection tyres for the next sportive... Schwable Ultremo something like that, they're very good.

The sad thing is, I can't see the police actually bothering to do anything about this.

No doubt it will be some chav boy racers who have watched far too much Top Gear or have been enraged after reading the Daily Mail or it could be some nutter who has time to spray paint drawing pins and then drive and drop them.

When a driver travelling at the speed limit on the motorway loses control because of a blowout ( I imagine most haven't got the skill to compensate) do we blame them? No, it would be counted as an accident, unless the cause of the blowout was a deliberate action by another in which case it would rightly be seen as the result of deliberate and malicious action. Why then is it partly a cyclist's fault if he is travelling quickly?

Unfortunately, you can't stop illicit behavior. But if you can catch the extreme criminals, you dole out such severe punishment as to deter the next potential criminal. We no longer do that. We are a pussified world now. But, if the Vikings were still around...

First beat the criminal to within an inch of his or her life. Then Torture them in the most heinous ways. Break their legs, arms, ribs, hands and all the bones in their feet and fingers.

Allow them to heal for 6 months then severely beat them again. Beat them until they are completely useless as a product of a human being. Then allow them to just waste away...

That won't stop crime completely, but it will curtail it to a degree. We need real mafias back. Those who are Noble savages. Violence is the answer for a tolerant society.

Presumably I can dispose of some crazy paving from the top of my nearest motorway bridge with similar impunity...or once again if caught would I face the ever present double standards applied in favour to anything motorised whereby those actions are deemed unacceptable?

How would they even go about finding this/these cunt(s) though?

I sincerely doubt the tack layers have any idea as to bow dangerous a high speed puncture is for a road cyclist. Sure there's lots of "malicious intent" in laying them in the first place but it would be very hard to establish they intended to kill or were reckless as to whether the outcome was likely to be death*

* what the actual test for mens rea is for all the armchair lawyers out there.

The United States has an useful definition for this type of crime:

"Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of acts that create a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions."

The perpetrator's probably following the news and may even read these comments. Must feel good to know they didn't keep anybody from riding. Everybody changed their tubes and kept going. People try this from time to time, but every year there are more riders. Imagine the ineffectual rage these poor cowards must feel, to have gone to so much trouble and have no effect other than making themselves into objects of well-earned ridicule.

You've got to wonder just what the hell is wrong with someone that thinks this is an appropriate response to being held up on the way to getting their Sunday papers, or whatever the perceived injustice is.

Do they have an actual understanding of what they're doing, or in their dim minds are bike crashes just Harold Lloyd style wobbles into the bushes, having been taught some sort of lesson?

It's really depressing to be reminded that such ignorant, petty, spiteful little people are around.

Shocking. (both the putting of tacks and some of the above comments ).

A tack might be working it's way through a car tyre, weakening it, leading to a high speed blow out, who knows? Slow hand clap for the tack layer.

If the person/s were caught, they would just use the 'What about my children' defence although having no regard for anyone else, this defence does seem to work!

To be guilty of "attempted murder" the police/CPS would need to prove an intention to kill. Nothing less would do!

How many of those who suffered at the hands of the person who placed the tacks/pins died?? I'm guessing none!

The lowest offence here is criminal damage. Depending on your view point, the offence could be anything in between.

The issue is catching the person responsible and proving their involvement. Now that, is the tricky part. Can't imagine that there is CCTV covering that part of the country. If there are any "ident" hits on the tacks/pins then hopefully someone will be interviewed about it.

Don't hold your breath though.

Now, we all like too ride our bike & I am someone who can descend reasonably quickly. However, you still need to be able to bring yourself to a controlled stop if you need to.

If you ride at excessive speed, then you need to accept some responsibility for what happens.

Scum everywhere,hope there are'nt any of these tacks left as i occassionally do a 60 mile loop around that area,drop down into Bridgend from the Bwlch
Best take about 5 inner tubes next time otherwise i'll be stuffed in the middle of nowhere

We know absolutely nothing about "Mens Rea" because we don't even know who the alleged perpetrator was so how can we pronounce on the guilty state of their mind? Quoting part of a Latin phrase without thinking what it means doesn't make an argument.

And the words "Mens Rea - check" in court won't make a case...

Theoretically, IF this was an area with very little traffic, then you can use mobile masts to triangulate and determine roughly if somebody was in the area at a particular time.

I would suspect that it was done just before the actual riders came through and that it would be a local individual.

You'll probably have to call MI5 to get the answer though.

The crime of Murder can be found where intention was to cause GBH but killing was the result. The crime of Attempted Murder requires proof that intention was to kill. So the latter is far harder to prove.

It's obvious that there aren't many people who go out with an intention to kill strangers, but that there are a lot more who could put cyclists at risk of death because they fail to have any empathy or thought to the full consequences of their actions. So to project a murderous intent without evidence for that is more than a bit of a reach.

I'll be delighted if we see any prosecution and maybe a bit surprised too. This will be a hard one to prove in court if no witnesses to the laying of the tacks come forward.

I was on the receiving end of this sort of behavior when I rode the Etape Caledonia years ago. 2 punctures even though I was one of the many riders held up at the bottom of the pass while the road was swept by willing local volunteers.

If the tacks were indeed painted (after being bought and before placement) then wouldn't show attempt to maliciously injure?

IIRC the statute for manslaughter rests on actions which could foreseeably result in a death (or some such wording). Placing said tacks just prior to a hairpin on a fast descent would surely qualify?

(I'm not stating, I'm asking. Put down the pitchfork and step away from the flames)

It's a pretty scary thing to have happen at speed, mind.

aside from the tacks issue. Why the feck would you want to video yourself riding a sportive??

Quote:

can you imagine the outcry and manhunt if somebody lay pins down point up where people took their dogs walking

Or threw bricks off a motorway bridge? I'd struggle to see any real difference there, and I don't think calling it attempted murder is doing us - as people who ride bikes - any harm.

Or should we just all meekly accept it like the second-class citizens cyclists are in the UK?

Quote:

Attempted Murder might be "possible" if the police can obtain evidence that the saboteur intended to kill (N.B. EVIDENCE not the opinion of a cyclist lynch mob). At present it seems there is no such evidence and it is very very unlikely that evidence of a sufficient quality will become available.

which means the police need to investigate to determine whether this is attempted murder, or assault, or whether this is obstruction of the highway and then prosecute as appropriate

some parallels to think about.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15998468

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8680461.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7234755.stm

and as English law is based on case law to a large part.

It merely a shits trick! Police won't bother if nobody is injured, but can you imagine the outcry and manhunt if somebody lay pins down point up where people took their dogs walking?

If someone had died this might have met the criteria for "Involuntary Manslaughter". Specifically "Unlawful Act Manslaughter". http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/
The unlawful act might be; "Obstruction of the Highway" Highways Act 1980.
Section 137 – Penalty for willful obstruction.
(1)If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way willfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale; or maybe "Assault"? See below.

The act of Sabotage "might" be considered an "Assault" upon the persons riding the Sportive, if any cyclists were injured maybe "Assault Occasioning ABH"? http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_against_the_person/

Attempted Murder might be "possible" if the police can obtain evidence that the saboteur intended to kill (N.B. EVIDENCE not the opinion of a cyclist lynch mob). At present it seems there is no such evidence and it is very very unlikely that evidence of a sufficient quality will become available.

The CPS guidance is far from complete (we have lawyers for a reason) but people who bang on about Murder here would do well to read it. That's where you find the basic UK definitions of Murder not a ranty paragraph typed here without references

Murder doesn't have a basic definition. Almost nothing in law has a basic definition.

I'm with AyBee and everyone else who doesn't find this hyperbole helpful.

if someone died i suspect you could get convicted of voluntary manslaughter.