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Bowman Pilgrims 16Non! No refund for L’Etape du Tour entrant affected by disc brake ban
A road.cc reader with a road bike with disc brakes has been told he is not entitled to a refund of his entrance fee to this year’s L’Etape du Tour despite the ban on disc brakes announced by the French cycling federation, the FFC, last week.
The ban, which follows the UCI’s suspension of a trial of disc brakes within the peloton, applies to all events organised under the umbrella of the FFC, including cyclosportives such as L’Etape du Tour.
The UCI’s decision to bar disc brakes in pro racing came after Movistar rider Fran Ventoso sustained a serious cut to his leg in a crash at Paris-Roubaix, with the Spanish rider maintaining a disc brake caused the injury.
It has been reported that insurance concerns were a factor in the FFC’s decision to follow suit. As we reported yesterday, the Spanish federation, the RFEC, has also now forbidden disc brakes from road events including sportives.
> Spain joins France in banning disc brakes from road events including sportives
The FAQ section of the Etape du Tour website states that “All types of FFC approved bikes are accepted, with the exception of electric bikes.” Since last week, road bikes with disc brakes now fall outside that definition.
Following the news of the FFC’s ban last week, Mark Ireland wrote to Etape du Tour organisers ASO Challenges to clarify the position including whether he could obtain a refund of the €143.99 he had paid them, which included the €100 entry fee, €5 insurance charge and extras such as photos.
He asked: “Are you able to confirm whether or not road bikes with disc brakes will be permitted at the event? If not, I assume that it will be possible to get a refund on the entry.”
He was told: “According to the rules of the Etape du Tour, the disc brakes are not allowed for this race.
“Every person who registers to the Etape du Tour agrees with the rules and accept them without any reserves. These rules explain that every participant will have to do the race with material approved by the FFC (and thus the UCI). Disc brakes not being so, your bike is not permitted on the Etape du Tour.
“Controls equipment (as doping controls) are made by federal authorities or independent and not by the organizers.
“In terms of insurance and your responsibility, if you realize the race with a non-certified equipment, not respecting the rules of the competition, you will not be covered by your insurance.”
The decision to ban disc brakes from the event is out of ASO’s control, and the FFC regulations governing what is and isn’t allowed are the ones in force at the time of the event, not registration, but Mark’s frustration in the circumstances is understandable.
He told road.cc: “I decided to build up a road disc bike (Bowman Pilgrims) because of the versatility that a road disc bike provides for riding in the UK, the ability to take the single track road that you'd normally give a miss on your conventional 23mm road bike, the year round braking confidence.”
> Bowman Cycles Pilgrims Disc frameset
We asked him whether hiring or borrowing a bike was an option. “I have looked at hiring a bike,” he said, “but personally don't much fancy tackling the descents of the Alps on an unfamiliar bike, I'd considered that more of a risk than running disc brakes.”
As for ASO’s attitude, he added: “Personally I think that that they haven't really considered the impact to everyday riders, who perhaps, don't have more than one bike to choose from. Most of all I'm frustrated by the lack of communication.
“There has been no email or website communication. I had to get in touch with ASO following seeing the story initially on road.cc.”
After France, cyclists from the UK make up the next biggest national contingent, accounting for more than one in five of the 15,010 entrants last year.
In Europe, the British market, less conservative than countries such as France and Spain, is leading the way when it comes to uptake of disc brake equipped road bikes.
Indeed many sportive bikes on the market now, such as the Giant Defy, come as disc brake only, as does most of the Cannondale Synapse range.
They’re proving popular among sportive riders too, and with cyclists from the UK making up more than one in five Etape du Tour entrants – the biggest national contingent after France – Mark is unlikely to be the only one in this situation.
> French sportive disc brake ban leaves British riders and tour operators struggling to react
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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46 comments
Can Ride London please ban disc brakes too?
Then I'd be forced to buy a new bike.
I don't understand what this fuss is all about. Bar the 2015-2016 test conducted in the pro field, disc brakes have never been allowed in UCI/FFC sanctionned events open to amateur riders. That FFC statement a few days ago was just a clarification but disc were never allowed in these specific sportives.
What's up with people who are too lazy to read the rules prior to registering to an event then ask for a refund ?
Besides it's not like there were not thousands of <200€ bikes available in the second hand market. There is still plenty of time to buy that bike, ride those events and sell them back in a few months for nearly the same price. Think of it as a free or very affordable bike rental. Those events takes place on open roads, nothing prevents you from showing up and ride alongside riders doing the event with your disc braked bike. Just don't ask for a number and timing chip and be autonomous with your feeding and water supply.
Note: I consider myself as pro disc brakes and I don't have any rim braked bike anymore.
"I am in the same position with regards La Marmotte and at the moment the only bike I have found to hire is 1 size smaller frame and 10 speed. "
Hmmmmmm. Terrible. Truly terrible. To think that back in the dark ages I somehow managed to complete the event two years in a row with just a humble 10 speed and calliper brakes...
My temptation would be to turn up at one of these petty sportives without entering, preferably with a few hundred other people on disc brake equipped bikes and ride the route anyway. They are on open roads, so they can hardly exclude you.
Loking at this from a different prism this fits wondefully into the UCI-ASO dispute narrative. In which it is often argued that UCI are trying to move the sport forward but aren't really in control and end up doubling back on their decisions. While the line about the ASO is that they are just all about the money so they will ultimately support the status quo as long as they can get theirs, and they get to pin any and all blame on everyone but themselves.
BMC are rebranding their bike as the GranFondoGF01 (Not actually allowed for Granfondo use)
Small font or long downtube?
This just further lowers my interest in sportives. I think it's grossly unfair for organisers to refuse refunds when rules have been changed (or adhered to) after folk have registered and paid. We all know how big L'etape is. I am confident that there would be no problem in reselling any refunded places. OK there's a cost to do so, stick a €10 admin fee on refunds. I'm sure the people involved would prefer to get back most their entrance fee than none. I know I would (though no doubt I'd moan about the charge).
Bloody disgraceful.
And I love the suggestion of just picking up a two grand alternative to the bike you have intended to use. If that wasn't being ironic then it reinforces my opinion of where cycling is going these days.
This.
If I was in this position, I'd be getting onto my credit card company and arranging a charge back. I'd have paid for a service which they have now changed the T&Cs such that thye can't deliver the goods.
Hit them in the pockets!
I'm not an expert in contract law, however some of the training courses I have done previously have made reference to cases.
My opinion would be that at the time of booking the rules did not exclude disc brake equipped bikes, therefore the organisers in accepting your money have entered into a contract. As they have now changed the conditions of that contract without negotiation with participants, they should be obliged to offer you the option to cancel the contract. They may have a clause in the entry terms which says that they are able to alter the rules at any time, but I don't know how legally binding this could be, otherwise they could create any new rule "all participants must have feet smaller than size 3.5"....
If nothing else, an ethical company should at least give you the option. I entered the Bath Duathlon recently, and due to circumstances beyond the organisers control the date of the event had to be changed. I was given the opportunity to participate on the new date or ask for a refund of my entry.
Class action law suit?
Were the training courses on French law?
The reality is transport and accommodation will be the bulk of the costs and the organisers won't be responsible for those.
What they may not emphasize sufficiently in those training courses that you attended is that possession really is nine tenths of the law. Once you've paid your money, ASO are going to say "non" to a refund until you give up asking for one, including as they will have already paid some of the funds they received from entrants on to their own suppliers. (I wonder how Trek - a major sponsor - feel about all this.) The trouble and expense of taking advice on a contract governed by French law and commencing proceedings in circumstances where the prospects of successfully forcing ASO to disgorge funds they have already banked are negligible will dissuade 99% of people who feel aggrieved from seeking legal recourse (which, from a policy perspective, is probably the right outcome as court time isn't ever really paid for by the parties and there must be a question as to whether a dispute such as this is a good use of the court's time/taxpayers money). US style "class action lawsuits" are unknown in France, I gather.
If you have booked through an official travel provider (in the old days you had to enter via select travel partners if you were outside France?) may be worth pressuing them, certainly more likely to have success their than with ASO. I'd be interested to know whether US entrants are similarly up in arms/have been in contact with their travel providers/have had any success.
Clauses that can change anything at any time wouldn't be legal as no such contract would be workable and every scumbag would have such a weasel contract.
Sigh...
Disc bikes were always illegal for FFC rules sportives, but the organisers chose to turn a blind eye on disc bike entrants to take the lolly, until their insurers decided to pay close attention to the issue - at which point the sportive organisers realised that someone maimed by a disc bike owner would have to sue the bike owner/ sportive organiser for damages.
The sportive organiser simply have to say that their event is organised to FFC regulations without having to go to any fine detail about what that entails and then take your dosh.
It is then up to the entrant to discover the true nature as to what they have agreed to.
I can't see any refund from the CC company or any "class action".
He told road.cc: “I decided to build up a road disc bike (Bowman Pilgrims) because of the versatility that a road disc bike provides for riding in the UK, the ability to take the single track road that you'd normally give a miss on your conventional 23mm road bike, the year round braking confidence.”
He's drinking the marketing cool aid... I and countless others have riden plenty of singletrack and fireroads with caliper brakes and survived. Hell I've ridden sections of Paris Roubaix cobbles on a 1946 steel frame with 3 gears and wooden rims, actually if anyone wants to hire it they can take it on the Etape
It's called Freedom of Choice - you can ride what you want and he can ride what he wants. It's also called technological progress, though in this case it doesn't supersede rim brakes and make them redundant, it merely gives people CHOICE. Your choice of a 1946 bike is meritorious but hardly means others shouldn't be allowed to chose more modern bikes. BTW, you do know that the first real bikes had no pedals, no drivetrain at all right? So your 3speed pedal bike is an unnecessary modern contraption which was surely forced down consumers' throats with a large dose of Cool-Aid
I don't understand why people get so divisive about brakes! There are wars going on and debates about helmet use to participate in! 
@Simon MacMichael
Were carbon clinchers ever banned from sportives? I remember that a number of the events that included big climbs on the continent had reported cases of riders' wheels de-laminating on fast descents, as the heat became too much and the tyres exploded (with fairly nasty results). I think it only ever got to the stage of recommending against using them, but never an outright ban.
If that was the case, then it's kind of a double-standard, when compared to this
I agree, theres nothing to say you cant take your untested Chinese Carbon Clinchers, speaking to someone from mavic about the new Kysrium Carbon, and he was going on about how many delaminated/blown carbon rims they get in the Etape when providing neutral service. Discs would get rid of this issue, but strangely no-one ever talks about that risk.
I realise that discs are the minority so was searching for another case that would be as ridiculous as this one, but would gain more traction in the traditionalist roadie world. The only one I could come up with would be along the lines of: "To combat motorised doiping, the UCI henceforth has banned all batteries and electronic componants from bikes, including electronic drivetrains." The ourtrage that someone wouldn't be allowed to ride the Etape with their shiny new Dura Ace Di2 would have riots outside the ASO.
The comment in another post about marketing juice. People can ride whatever they like and should be allowed to do so. Despite the general feeling, cycling isn't a pro only elite sport and is actually about going out and riding your bike where you want and having fun while doing it. Yes you can survive on calipers and 3speed bikes on cobbles. I ride a caliper road bike all year round and easily survive. Would some roads be more fun if I could run 32mm tyres and discs, absolutely. Have I nearly stacked it due to pulling the brakes in winter in the rain and nothing happening for a second or so then locking, yes. You can 'survive' most things, hell, someone rode a CX bike down a Whistler DH course. They survived, albeit after crashing. Would they have been faster on a DH bike, yes. The point of the Disc enduro bikes is that they'll do more, more easily than a traditional road bike. Theres no way in hell i'd take my Supersix with carbon clinchers along a rutted muddy rocky farm track or old railway line even thought it'd cope. A Bowman or a Caad 12 disc with 32mm tyres, I wouldn't think twice.
The point of this rather long rant? It seems ridiculous that due to a UCI knee jerk rule change less than 3 months before an event, that people are no longer allowed to use their bikes, despite no issues in the previous editions and various other componants presenting equal risks. And the sloping shoulders of the organisers stinks as they have failed to acknowledge that peoples bikes were legal when they paid their money. Its equally annoying that the elitist, probably MAMIL 'you don't need discs on a road bike' contingent see fit to belittle the issue for their own pre/misconceptions, which detracts from the real issue getting any real traction in the cycling press thus preventing pressure on the ASO to do something about it.
Those who have financial commitment to these events and ride disc braked bikes, do as suggested and ride a little earlier or the day before. Don't lose your money over this stupid rule.
This disc debarcle is nothing more than laughable!
"Controls equipment (as doping controls) are made by federal authorities or independent and not by the organizers."
The seems to be a flat out lie.
The organisers choose to be a party to the rules by associating with 'federal authorities', and therefore they ARE controlling the equipment".
"Just following orders..."
Good news from Catalunya:
- https://www.facebook.com/larutaminera/photos/a.1381595522094619.10737418...
- https://www.ciclisme.cat/sites/default/files/repositoriciclisme/CRFD.pdf
So it seems everything is fine for La Ruta Minera.
The ruling basically says that you can't use them in races, but on sportives which are on open roads the normal traffic laws apply which allow disc brake bikes.
Google translate: "Statement on the use of disc brakes for bicycles
The Catalan Cycling Federation recalls that the use of disc brakes and
other material cycling as less than 12 spokes wheels or handlebars of the prolongador
Bicycle racing is banned group's official calendar Competition Road
the Catalan Cycling Federation.
Disc brakes are authorized for all
bike tests, both racing and leisure, pedaling ... etc., as well as for
Bike and Trials competitions.
The Committee Catalan Referees appointed for each race is
responsible for controlling the material and the sporting cyclist in accordance with the
Official competition regulations
No competitive events calendar Road Federation Catalan,
cyclist, pedaling, patents, etc ... meetings, develop without control
from the Catalan Referees Committee. These activities cyclists, traffic open it
governing the General Traffic Regulations and there is generally no restriction
cyclist use the material above."
If this changes for the 2017 season there will be advanced warning.
All very reasonable really.
I am not sure if this applies to the rest of Spain too.
I got exactly the same very stock repsonse when I complained. I also cced the FFC who are yet to respond. Very dissapointing. Especially as I have just spent alot of money on a disc bike especially with the etape in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YJeKb_hzAE
awesome
Very interesting! What possesses a person to try that I don't know, but it's an interesting experiment. I assume that in a more natural riding environment you would hit the disc at an angle, and due to the inevitable accident braking the disc would likely be hot both adding an extra element of danger, but still.
I never quite understood the "rotating knives" argument if I'm honest as the edges of the discs on my bike are squared off, rather than tapered to an edge (or are more sophisticated road bike discs tapered for aero benefits?) so friction burn and hitting it at an angle are the main worries I would have thought.
Frankly if part of you gets that close to a fast spinning wheel, something else is almost certainly going in the spokes anyway which is going to sting!
I understand the organisers being funny about insurance though: any organisers of any kind of event always are. Seems a shame though that the rules change AFTER entry, that is not the rider's fault.
....and yet I got two nice deep gashes in my hand when I pulled the pump off the valve and my hand smashed into the disc!
Funny that, I've got some deep cuts on my knuckles from punching the chainset while taking my pedals off....
and Ive still got the puncture scars up the back of my leg when the chain snapped and the front chainset rode up my leg instead..
Hahahahaha I still bear the scars on my knuckles from doing the exact same thing about 20 years ago!
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