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news
Nairo Quintana in Vuelta leader's jersey after Stage 9 2014 (pic Unipublic, Graham Watson)Nairo Quintana says peloton “shouldn’t be using disc brakes”
The UCI reintroduced its trial of disc brakes this year and strong feelings remain. Nairo Quintana is the latest to have his say, telling Cycling News that he believes they are heavier, less aerodynamic and dangerous.
The disc brake trial was previously suspended following 2016's Paris-Roubaix, where Movistar rider Fran Ventoso blamed one for a deep cut to his leg sustained during a crash.
"Our bike brand has disc bikes available but in my opinion we shouldn't be using disc brakes,” said Quintana. "Firstly, because they don't actually brake all that well. You hear other riders' bikes in the peloton when the brake rubs up against the rotor. That's one thing. Secondly, it makes the bike less aerodynamic. Thirdly, they're much heavier.
“Lastly, there's the danger they pose in a peloton of more than 100 riders. They are good for a touring cyclist, or a person who goes out riding with two or three others and is more careful, but racing is another matter."
Nairo Quintana calls for power meter ban
As a Movistar rider, Quintana rides Canyon bikes. According to our tech editor, David Arthur, the firm concedes that disc brake versions of its bikes are fractionally less aerodynamic.
“Canyon, when it unveiled its complete range of disc-equipped bikes recently, made the statement that the disc brakes give away just 1.5 per cent compared to the rim brake versions, when tested at the power required to maintain 45kph.
“As for weight, Canyon says its disc frames are about 70g heavier, but by the time you add disc calipers and rotors we’re seeing complete bikes come in about 400g heavier than similarly specced disc brake versions.
“For a professional cyclist obsessed by marginal gains, those differences are hard to ignore. Canyon does point out that the advantages of improved braking control and modulation are significant benefits of disc brakes, and that’s backed up by our own testing. But clearly the demands and requirements of a professional racing cyclist are different to non-racing cyclists.”
As a climber, weight will doubtless be a higher priority for Quintana than many other riders. However, it’s worth pointing out that team mechanics are frequently obliged to add weight to bikes to bring them up to the UCI’s 6.8kg minimum weight requirement.
We reviewed a 6.5kg version of the Ultimate CF SLX that the Colombian will be riding this year, so 400g on top of that could theoretically see Quintana cede 100g to his rivals. The professional cyclists’ association, the CPA, is also pushing for further protective features such as covers to be introduced – which would bring a little more weight. However, we’re inclined to say that 100g or so could easily be offset elsewhere.
Last week, Team Sky’s Owain Doull claimed that the rotor on Marcel Kittel’s bike had cut through his shoe "like a knife". Overhead footage of the crash suggested there was no contact between Doull and Kittel’s bike, but the German chose not to ride with disc brakes the following day, “out of respect for colleagues.”
Disc brakes are now required to have rounded edges to reduce the risk of injury, but the CPA has said that most of its members remain opposed to the technology in its current form – hence the suggestion that covers be introduced.
As much as anything, it seems that Quintana is simply happy with what he’s already got. "There is no problem with the brakes that we currently have – they work very well. No one has ever had any sort of complaint. They're lighter, and you have a much better feel."
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
Latest Comments
- chrisonabike 4 sec ago
Thanks. I guess the question is "need". If the road is busy, it sounds like it is a desired route between places? In which case (given this an...
- mdavidford 8 min 1 sec ago
Don't know what you mean. I thought my suggestion was entirely practical.
- hawkinspeter 8 min 21 sec ago
So, it looks like she can choose a 45 minute drive or a 26 minute walk. It's almost as if the scheme is encouraging people to walk short distances...
- mdavidford 10 min 31 sec ago
...and a square of faux sheepskin for the back of your saddle.
- hawkinspeter 20 min 15 sec ago
They've got GPS tracking information, so the app can not allow the journey to be "finished" unless the bike is left in an authorised parking...
- chrisonabike 20 min 44 sec ago
An excellent idea but then - due to expensive lawyers and accountants - no doubt the richer would be found to personally not own or control a penny...
- mitsky 29 min 27 sec ago
Re: the shipping container bike lane......
- Rapha Nadal 42 min 32 sec ago
I'd buy a motorbike fo rthat kind of money!
- ktache 11 hours 35 min ago
There are people out there who will make you the belt out of your old tyre.
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39 comments
When we can all do the hours on the bike that the pros do, can ride as fast as they do, can climb as well as they do and know as much about bikes and equipment as they do, then that's when our opinion counts over theirs. Let's not knock their opinion but rather listen and make up our own minds. They are entitled to their opinion whether or not sponsors help them to decide their opinion. I'm happy with my rim brake bike equally as I am with my disc brake bike. Ride what you want and enjoy what you ride. If your like me, not a pro but very enthusiastic and passionate, then it doesn't matter. Technology doesn't have to be endorsed by a pro to make it good for everyone.
If the sponsor/manufacturer of my group set didn't offer disc brakes, I'd also want to stop those in the peloton who could have them ?
He claims they don't work very well. That's an odd statement, given that one of the main reasons to switch to them is that, regardless of appearance or weight, they're functionally better than rim brakes.
One thing I have noticed is that 140mm rotors on the front of a "normal" road bike is stupid. They're OK-ish on the rear, and maybe they're OK for a featherweight rider on a featherweight bike, but they're underpowered and easy to overheat on a regular road bike. 160mm rotors make much more sense, at the expense of a few grams.
I think that it is ace that he went to the trouble of putting them in order of priority. Not very good, noisy, less aero, and least important last possibly dangerous.
Summary: if Quintana could use disc brakes, he would, in a hurry. And he wouldn't complain at all about them.
And looking what is the groupset used by the Movistar Team in 2017, (Nairo Quintana)
Bingo
The Lotto-Soudal team (Adam Hansen)
Just a coincidence.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/worldtour-pro-team-bike...
He can say what he wants...I like my discs because they look priddy...
"the brake rubs up against the rotor. That's one thing. Secondly, it makes the bike less aerodynamic. "
And what kind of bikes did Marcel Kittel and Tom Boonen ride to victory recently ?
"Thirdly, they're much heavier." when climbing there's zero difference because of the UCI limit ; but in the descent, those with discs will say bye bye to Quintana ...
These morons whining about disc brakes sure have a big heart and strong legs, a brain i'm not sure.
I really don't care about the pros whether they ride with disc or not.
As long as the industry is pushing the right direction it really doesn't bother me. I feel much safer on my disc road bike.
At least one of the arguements against is not really open for debate. They are ugly.
But worse than that - they're noisy.
This is becoming like the 'anti-vax' movement from the pros. Moaning about 70g as if it'd cost him a grand tour, don't forget his luddite anti-powermeter stance as well. Boo this man!
Yes, why on earth should the pros have an opinion the equipment they use.
Terrible people those pros.
Do they have a say about their shoes, helmet, tyres, groupset, kit, ... ? No, they just ride what they are asked to.
Yes. When asked.
And when they don't ride what they are asked to, they are walking, not riding a bike for a lot of money.
I have no problem with anyone expressing an opinion on disc brakes especially if they actually have some experience of using them. What is annoying is the confusion caused by unsubstantiated or outright disproven claims of injury by pro riders (who I really do not care what legal tech they use to win races) and the threat that once again the UCI may extend a ban to ammateur events that I do take part in.
I wish that Campag would just get on and release a disc option. So much of this anti disc sentiment would disappear overnight.
I think it's clear he hasn't ridden the disc brake bikes much, the reference to other riders' having issues with brake rub seems like a clear tell. But while I doubt Campag would be thrilled that their biggest sponsored star isn't riding best stuff they have to offer, IMHO that's a personal call. He actually seems to train on (disc-braked) MTBs often, so I'm guessing when he goes out on the road bike he'd likely want to ride his exact race set-up.
On the points he made he knows any additional bike weight would hamper him particularly as a light rider, which would be a fair point bar for the UCI minimum (which could go, though). Also, he seems like a socially aware and empathetic fellow (outside of races), so any potential safety concerns would genuinely hit home for him. Any aerodynamic arguments are guesswork for anyone, coming from pro bike rider I'm guessing they're based on intuitive feel more than looking at research.
I do think his is an honest assesment of the issue and despite his guarded reputation it's a good thing he speaks up about the issues of the day (though I disagree with him on power meters as well). But he's a smart, deliberate guy and he might change his tune a bit if he gave Cayon's latest disc-brake offerings more of a try.
I'm still wondering where all these Pros were when carbon fibre rims were introduced? Sooo many issues with them (e.g. crappy in the wet, suspect heat management), but not a peep from the Pros!
Yes, apparently they don't mind riding at 80 kph in fast descent, with carbon rims and the glue to the tubular heating to the max ... go figure
Pros are good at riding bikes. Their ability on a bike does not necessarily correlate with being good at much else. I've often thought that some riders are best to let their legs do the talking (with exceptions- Emma Pooley, Nicole Cooke, Chris Boardman spring to mind, maybe Peter Sagan). Their pronouncements are often groan-worthy (Sir Wiggins). I'm not yet sure which category Quintana comes into- possibly "don't give up the day job".
Bottom line is that they are just not needed for road racing at any level.
Current rim brakes provide great modulation and more power than you'd ever need; about 99% of the time when you're racing you're just feathering the brakes to maintain position/avoid the wheel in front. And if you get yourself in an bad situation where you really need to weigh anchor, the limiting factor will ALWAYS be tyre grip/adhesion, not braking power.
Sort of right, sort of wrong.
The limit of stopping 'speed' will be affected greatly by tyre grip, but how close you can get to that tyre grip limit will therefore also have a significant effect.
I'm sure I read somewhere something that a SRAM engineer said. Rim brakes allow you to get to with about 10% of full power (can't remeber exact figure, but it's something around that) before ability to modulate prevents you from getting any closer to locking up without locking up. Disc brakes allow another 5% (again can't remember exact figure) or so.
If someone can find the source that would be handy - quick google search didn't turn up and no time to look harder.
In short though, the limiting factor for stopping a bike is the tyres, but discs allow you to get closer to that limit.
I think you'd want to drop anchor to stop.
Good point; well made!
Amazing really, how little Quintana knows about bike racing, and how much more everyone on road.cc knows than him!
☺
Totally agree, but wait till the "disc brake week end warrior gringo mafia" get a hold of him.
Someone will make a 6.8kg aero, disc brake road bike shortly and that'll be the end of it.
"Firstly, because they don't actually brake all that well.
Lolz to that, hydros are amazing, constant uniform feel and power.
Secondly, it makes the bike less aerodynamic.
Didn't Cannondale prove that it was negligible? Obviously not exact science but interesting results regardless http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Disc_and_Rim_Brake_Aero_Drag_6073.html
Thirdly, they're much heavier.
Considering half the teams are filling chainset axles with lead to get by the UCI regs, I'd say it's a non-issue. Surely a climber would appreciate the potential of lighter disc specific rims, rotating mass etc.
Anyway, I think the pros should be able to choose whatever they want to use, the only people it will effect will be the people responsible for the spare parts inventories.
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