Invest in cycling to ease the misery of gridlocked roads urges new infrastructure report

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

One way lanes for motorised vehicles into and out of towns and cities, the other lane for people on bikes in both directions, priority for turning for people on bikes at all junctions with lots of paint and back up of law would transform the UK literally overnight into a place people could feel safe to cycle everywhere.

also removing free parking of any sort in town and city centres, except for Friday after 7pm forcing large supermarkets whether in town or on the outslirts to have bicycle parking that is secure and covered, afterall most big chains can afford to cover their trolleys and tarmac acres of land for motors so there are no excuses.

Outside of towns and cities we could give motorists special lanes that they have to use no matter if they don't go where you want all the time and take you the long way round, let's call them motorways.

Simply put we have to making getting around by motor vehicle as difficult as possible, restrict use in towns and cities massively with really only the disabled having access at all times.

Monumental change needs to happen and happen fast, waffling about small changes doesn't solve shit.

You could go further in any area with a grid pattern, alternate streets for cycles and cars. Half the space available to motor transport and create sade routes for active travel at a stroke. But you also need to get to the towns and thay is a lot harder.

srchar wrote:

Sure. Better infrastructure would be great. But it will take a long time to build and cost a lot of money. My point was more that there are plenty of other things that can be done for little or no cost, which haven't been done, and won't be, because deep down, the politicians are too short-sighted, too scared of Mail headlines and too in thrall to the motoring lobby.

Of course you're right.

I can't remember seeing so many social and political ducks lined up, ready for a single solution to be blasted at them, as there are now, with 'more cycling'. And ministers are either not seeing that, or wilfully ignoring it.

davel wrote:

I can't remember seeing so many social and political ducks lined up, ready for a single solution to be blasted at them, as there are now, with 'more cycling'. And ministers are either not seeing that, or wilfully ignoring it.

We shouldn't be surprised. There are any number of social problems with glaringly obvious solutions that are ignored or made worse by changes that purport to solve them. The current housing situation is one obvious example I can think of. Created entirely by government policy and continually made worse by government policy that is supposed to fix it. Thinking about it, when you have an entire generation screaming for something to be done about housing and mostly ignored, why are we surprised that a few people who ride bikes get the same treatment? Depressing.

srchar wrote:

if being that miserable and progressing that slowly won't get them out of their cars, I don't know what will.

I think you had it earlier in your post: presumed liability.

Every now and then I drive into work, and I remember one day there were two real whammies of news stories in the morning. IIRC four studies had been published around the same time (something like 6 million people don't even get 10 mins exercise per month, 40,000 people die prematurely due to air pollution, regular exercise adds years in terms of quality of life, and people lose years to traffic jams) - real 'no shit, sherlock' stuff, but two were published on the same day, and made the morning's headlines, and I listened to them on my car radio as I queued and looked around at all the other single-occupant cars, and was happy that I'd be on my bike again the next day.

No matter how much the dots are drawn and joined for them, no matter how unsustainable car transport is, no matter how much others might be 'nudged' by C2W or whatever, no matter how much people are told that they're killing themselves and wasting their lives and killing their kids and costing the NHS, the vast majority are incapable of synchronising their priorities with those of society.

We need to redraw the road hierarchy with pedestrians at the top of the tree, bikes next, and fatties who jump in their car to drop their kids in the classroom or collect a takeaway firmly at the bottom, with them subsidising the healthy and socially acceptable choices that the others are making.

davel wrote:

srchar wrote:

if being that miserable and progressing that slowly won't get them out of their cars, I don't know what will.

I think you had it earlier in your post: presumed liability. Every now and then I drive into work, and I remember one day there were two real whammies of news stories in the morning. IIRC four studies had been published around the same time (something like 6 million people don't even get 10 mins exercise per month, 40,000 people die prematurely due to air pollution, regular exercise adds years in terms of quality of life, and people lose years to traffic jams) - real 'no shit, sherlock' stuff, but two were published on the same day, and made the morning's headlines, and I listened to them on my car radio as I queued and looked around at all the other single-occupant cars, and was happy that I'd be on my bike again the next day. No matter how much the dots are drawn and joined for them, no matter how unsustainable car transport is, no matter how much others might be 'nudged' by C2W or whatever, no matter how much people are told that they're killing themselves and wasting their lives and killing their kids and costing the NHS, the vast majority are incapable of synchronising their priorities with those of society. We need to redraw the road hierarchy with pedestrians at the top of the tree, bikes next, and fatties who jump in their car to drop their kids in the classroom or collect a takeaway firmly at the bottom, with them subsidising the healthy and socially acceptable choices that the others are making.

people I’ve talked to who drive everywhere love being in their personal space. For some people it is precious, rare time on their own in a world that is not family, and not work, but a strange kind of freedom. There was a very good film a few years which explored some of this, ‘L’Emploi du temps’ / ‘Time Out’ by Laurent Cantet. It’s very difficult Ibyhink to overcome this attitude, even though that bike commute can be, and is, also precious time.

it’s also necessary to overcome the macho / materialistic aspect of car use and ownership. I've watched young men in ridiculously expensive flash cars driving like lords, and women too. I imagine most of us have been there, young, free, driving like a nutter. It was great. Hard to get past that.

ConcordeCX wrote:

davel wrote:

srchar wrote:

if being that miserable and progressing that slowly won't get them out of their cars, I don't know what will.

I think you had it earlier in your post: presumed liability. Every now and then I drive into work, and I remember one day there were two real whammies of news stories in the morning. IIRC four studies had been published around the same time (something like 6 million people don't even get 10 mins exercise per month, 40,000 people die prematurely due to air pollution, regular exercise adds years in terms of quality of life, and people lose years to traffic jams) - real 'no shit, sherlock' stuff, but two were published on the same day, and made the morning's headlines, and I listened to them on my car radio as I queued and looked around at all the other single-occupant cars, and was happy that I'd be on my bike again the next day. No matter how much the dots are drawn and joined for them, no matter how unsustainable car transport is, no matter how much others might be 'nudged' by C2W or whatever, no matter how much people are told that they're killing themselves and wasting their lives and killing their kids and costing the NHS, the vast majority are incapable of synchronising their priorities with those of society. We need to redraw the road hierarchy with pedestrians at the top of the tree, bikes next, and fatties who jump in their car to drop their kids in the classroom or collect a takeaway firmly at the bottom, with them subsidising the healthy and socially acceptable choices that the others are making.

people I’ve talked to who drive everywhere love being in their personal space. For some people it is precious, rare time on their own in a world that is not family, and not work, but a strange kind of freedom. There was a very good film a few years which explored some of this, ‘L’Emploi du temps’ / ‘Time Out’ by Laurent Cantet. It’s very difficult Ibyhink to overcome this attitude, even though that bike commute can be, and is, also precious time.

it’s also necessary to overcome the macho / materialistic aspect of car use and ownership. I've watched young men in ridiculously expensive flash cars driving like lords, and women too. I imagine most of us have been there, young, free, driving like a nutter. It was great. Hard to get past that.

Personally, I value my head space when I'm riding or running, or walking, more than when I'm driving, but yes - I think I understand. I remember when a car did represent freedom to me, but I think even then the idea and reality were pretty separate. And I think the selling of that expectation of freedom and the open road goes back to srchar's point about the power of the car lobby (and we're both relatively petrolheady, judging by the car thread).

I'd love car adverts to be tempered with a dose of reality:
for the relatively minute period of its life that you will actually use this Peugeot shitmobile, it will be largely to sit in traffic watching a VW belch fumes at you, not to drive routefucking66 or hit the Hawaii surf with your mates. Here's Sian with the weather.

... and a health warning. Maybe new cars should come wrapped in emphysema lung paper. If it's good enough for cigarettes...

davel wrote:

I'd love car adverts to be tempered with a dose of reality: for the relatively minute period of its life that you will actually use this Peugeot shitmobile, it will be largely to sit in traffic watching a VW belch fumes at you, not to drive routefucking66 or hit the Hawaii surf with your mates.

Maybe even just a little bit of blurb like they have at the end of any ads for credit. You know, the breathless 5 seconds of chat along the lines of "introductory offer APR 4% rises to 33% APR after 2 years your home is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on your loan Swindle Loans ltd underwritten by FO Bank". How about car ads have "average speed of traffic in cities 9mph, dropping much lower during peak times, if you actually want to enjoy driving, like the man in this ad, book a track day" tagged on the end of them?

I'd quite like a jersey with the following text on the back:

"My average speed 18mph

Your average speed 9mph

Be patient"

srchar wrote:

davel wrote:

I'd love car adverts to be tempered with a dose of reality: for the relatively minute period of its life that you will actually use this Peugeot shitmobile, it will be largely to sit in traffic watching a VW belch fumes at you, not to drive routefucking66 or hit the Hawaii surf with your mates.

Maybe even just a little bit of blurb like they have at the end of any ads for credit. You know, the breathless 5 seconds of chat along the lines of "introductory offer APR 4% rises to 33% APR after 2 years your home is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on your loan Swindle Loans ltd underwritten by FO Bank". How about car ads have "average speed of traffic in cities 9mph, dropping much lower during peak times, if you actually want to enjoy driving, like the man in this ad, book a track day" tagged on the end of them?

I'd quite like a jersey with the following text on the back:

"My average speed 18mph

Your average speed 9mph

Be patient"

Adverts for medicines are all over Californian telly, and they're more disclaimer than content. 5 seconds of showing an 'older' couple walking along the beach; 25 seconds of someone speedtalking about how viagra and getting jiggy could kill you and it'd really be your own fault, you dirty old perv, and you should be getting checked out by a doctor at your age, sir.

srchar wrote:

 

- Legislation to oblige companies to provide secure cycle parking and somewhere to get showered, at a suitable ratio for the number of people they employ.

I used to think moves like this would help but now believe well-meaning incentives like cycle-to-work schemes, showers at work, etc are all utterly pointless. People (normal people, not the cyclists who frequent this site) are shit scared of cycling on the roads, or letting their loved ones cycle on the roads.

The roads have to be tackled. Infrastructure is the only answer. High quality, segregated, joined-up, well maintained, infrastructure with priority over side roads. It's the only thing which works.

If you have doubt it, pop to Holland. If you haven't time to go there, have a quick read: https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2017/10/12/what-nobody-told-me-1/

brooksby wrote:

That would be Lord "if there is a cycle path then cyclists should be forced to use it so as to clear up space on the real roads " Adonis?

No.... Surely Lord "HS2" Adonis...?

Or maybe the other one: Lord "When I suggested tuition fees I didn't think everyone would charge them, and now it's obvious what an awful idea it was, I want to blame unintended consequences" Adonis...?

I heard a rumour about Lord "Britain would be a better place if I fucked off and left it alone, wouldn't it?" Adonis, but I don't think that one really exists.