Cyclists make for better drivers, study concludes

Goldfever4 wrote:

However, I also agree that as a group we can be monumental dickheads when it comes to respecting other road users, speed limits and wildlife. Personally I'm not but I've been known to fall out with my mates when they drive like assholes.

I ride both. I think like most of these discussions it's difficult to put yourself in the other road user's position until you have actually experienced it.

This morning I was on my road bike, stopped in an ASL at a red light, when a motorcyclist filtered up to me. In fairness to him he didn't enter the ASL but it was a fairly loud and intimidating engine note. His respect of the ASL probably shows he was riding with consideration but waiting there with nothing protecting me but Lycra felt very exposed; unless he cycles, it's unlikely he knew how intimidating that motorbike was.

I also spent a year as a white van driver once. An old school non-turbo, slow as a slow thing, white van. It taught me to think ahead, far ahead, and now as a car driver, or motorcyclist, I make sure I never hog lane two on a motorway where I could be blocking a van driver trying to plan an overtake of a slower moving HGV in lane one.

I've long thought that cycling on the roads ought to be part of the driving test. Maybe not in the test itself but like there is a written component these days, maybe there should be an observed cycle ride component too. Of course it could never be implemented because it would fail a risk assement: our roads are too dangerous.

Username wrote:

Goldfever4 wrote:

However, I also agree that as a group we can be monumental dickheads when it comes to respecting other road users, speed limits and wildlife. Personally I'm not but I've been known to fall out with my mates when they drive like assholes.

I ride both. I think like most of these discussions it's difficult to put yourself in the other road user's position until you have actually experienced it.

This morning I was on my road bike, stopped in an ASL at a red light, when a motorcyclist filtered up to me. In fairness to him he didn't enter the ASL but it was a fairly loud and intimidating engine note. His respect of the ASL probably shows he was riding with consideration but waiting there with nothing protecting me but Lycra felt very exposed; unless he cycles, it's unlikely he knew how intimidating that motorbike was.

I also spent a year as a white van driver once. An old school non-turbo, slow as a slow thing, white van. It taught me to think ahead, far ahead, and now as a car driver, or motorcyclist, I make sure I never hog lane two on a motorway where I could be blocking a van driver trying to plan an overtake of a slower moving HGV in lane one.

I've long thought that cycling on the roads ought to be part of the driving test. Maybe not in the test itself but like there is a written component these days, maybe there should be an observed cycle ride component too. Of course it could never be implemented because it would fail a risk assement: our roads are too dangerous.

I completely agree. Generally, bikers stick our head in the sand about what we expect to do once we have filtered and find ourselves at the front of a queue. Most of the time the biker ends up crossing the stop line (or going past the ASL) which is obviously poor and is less than ideal for cyclists.

Goldfever4 wrote:

Username wrote:

Goldfever4 wrote:

However, I also agree that as a group we can be monumental dickheads when it comes to respecting other road users, speed limits and wildlife. Personally I'm not but I've been known to fall out with my mates when they drive like assholes.

I ride both. I think like most of these discussions it's difficult to put yourself in the other road user's position until you have actually experienced it.

This morning I was on my road bike, stopped in an ASL at a red light, when a motorcyclist filtered up to me. In fairness to him he didn't enter the ASL but it was a fairly loud and intimidating engine note. His respect of the ASL probably shows he was riding with consideration but waiting there with nothing protecting me but Lycra felt very exposed; unless he cycles, it's unlikely he knew how intimidating that motorbike was.

I also spent a year as a white van driver once. An old school non-turbo, slow as a slow thing, white van. It taught me to think ahead, far ahead, and now as a car driver, or motorcyclist, I make sure I never hog lane two on a motorway where I could be blocking a van driver trying to plan an overtake of a slower moving HGV in lane one.

I've long thought that cycling on the roads ought to be part of the driving test. Maybe not in the test itself but like there is a written component these days, maybe there should be an observed cycle ride component too. Of course it could never be implemented because it would fail a risk assement: our roads are too dangerous.

I completely agree. Generally, bikers stick our head in the sand about what we expect to do once we have filtered and find ourselves at the front of a queue. Most of the time the biker ends up crossing the stop line (or going past the ASL) which is obviously poor and is less than ideal for cyclists.

I think the highway code says, when filtering, you are supposed to stop behind the first vehicle stopped before the white line. So that would usually be behindthe first car, rather than behind a bike in the ASL. But it would probably work better for all if the ASL was for motorbikes too, or maybe a 2-stage ASL, front half for motorcycles, second half for cycles?

ChrisB200SX wrote:

Goldfever4 wrote:

Username wrote:

Goldfever4 wrote:

However, I also agree that as a group we can be monumental dickheads when it comes to respecting other road users, speed limits and wildlife. Personally I'm not but I've been known to fall out with my mates when they drive like assholes.

I ride both. I think like most of these discussions it's difficult to put yourself in the other road user's position until you have actually experienced it.

This morning I was on my road bike, stopped in an ASL at a red light, when a motorcyclist filtered up to me. In fairness to him he didn't enter the ASL but it was a fairly loud and intimidating engine note. His respect of the ASL probably shows he was riding with consideration but waiting there with nothing protecting me but Lycra felt very exposed; unless he cycles, it's unlikely he knew how intimidating that motorbike was.

I also spent a year as a white van driver once. An old school non-turbo, slow as a slow thing, white van. It taught me to think ahead, far ahead, and now as a car driver, or motorcyclist, I make sure I never hog lane two on a motorway where I could be blocking a van driver trying to plan an overtake of a slower moving HGV in lane one.

I've long thought that cycling on the roads ought to be part of the driving test. Maybe not in the test itself but like there is a written component these days, maybe there should be an observed cycle ride component too. Of course it could never be implemented because it would fail a risk assement: our roads are too dangerous.

I completely agree. Generally, bikers stick our head in the sand about what we expect to do once we have filtered and find ourselves at the front of a queue. Most of the time the biker ends up crossing the stop line (or going past the ASL) which is obviously poor and is less than ideal for cyclists.

I think the highway code says, when filtering, you are supposed to stop behind the first vehicle stopped before the white line. So that would usually be behindthe first car, rather than behind a bike in the ASL. But it would probably work better for all if the ASL was for motorbikes too, or maybe a 2-stage ASL, front half for motorcycles, second half for cycles?

I've no idea what the solution is, but going right to the front is so common (and fair to want to be at the front, because bikes can make progress from stationary much faster than any other vehicle). All I know is, the bike usually ends up in an illegal position doing that, and we all look up and whistle as if we didn't see anything.... Not a great collective attitude to have, but better than getting squished. A worthwhile point to mention that filtering away from the back of a queue is an extremely useful safety precaution, just as much as it is about making progress through traffic.

wellsprop wrote:

Perhaps unsurprising. I imagine most motorcyclists are similarly better drivers.

From what I have experienced, generally, motorcyclists are the best (and often friendliest) road users. They also know the fastest lines down descents, which is great when you can follow them at 40+ mph

Sorry but as a % of an actual group motorcyclists are the worst risk taking pricks, in towns and cities it's not great but at least they are fairly limited, on suburban roads they are a menace and I get no extra room from them than I would do your average cager.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

wellsprop wrote:

Perhaps unsurprising. I imagine most motorcyclists are similarly better drivers.

From what I have experienced, generally, motorcyclists are the best (and often friendliest) road users. They also know the fastest lines down descents, which is great when you can follow them at 40+ mph

Sorry but as a % of an actual group motorcyclists are the worst risk taking pricks, in towns and cities it's not great but at least they are fairly limited, on suburban roads they are a menace and I get no extra room from them than I would do your average cager.

Motorcyclists (like cyclists, drivers and everyone else) aren't a homogenous group. The good ones probably do benefit from the additional perspective they get on two wheels. And then there are the ones racing and pulling wheelies in urban streets.

It's probably more about the kind of person you are. More considerate people use the extra perspective they have well; others won't.

I'm not sure how much weight to attach to this study - just because you do well in a lab test, that doesn't make you a good driver. It's probably more about your attitude.

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<p>[quote=wellsprop

wrote:

I'm not sure how much weight to attach to this study - just because you do well in a lab test, that doesn't make you a good driver. It's probably more about your attitude.

Agreed.

The study used a very small group of people  and just backs up anaedoctal evidence that those who ride a bike regularly  have better hazard perception.

To probably prove the hypothesis the study would have to use more subjects of different age groups particularly those in age groups 17-21, 21-25 and 55+ who are involved in more accidents according to insurance data. 

Bluebug wrote:

Duncann wrote:

I'm not sure how much weight to attach to this study - just because you do well in a lab test, that doesn't make you a good driver. It's probably more about your attitude.

Agreed.

The study used a very small group of people  and just backs up anaedoctal evidence that those who ride a bike regularly  have better hazard perception.

To probably prove the hypothesis the study would have to use more subjects of different age groups particularly those in age groups 17-21, 21-25 and 55+ who are involved in more accidents according to insurance data. 

The purpose of the study was not to prove an hypothesis but rather "to compare change detection ability between drivers with and without cycling experience" (taken from the discussion section of the original article).

Regarding age, the authors ensured no significant differences in age, sex, and driving experience. Comparing the results between different age groups would be a matter for another study.

The study did not conclude that cyclists are deffinitely better when driving but mereley that "Overall the current findings are consistent with theoretical prediction". It was the person who only read the abstract before writting their own piece who understood that.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

wellsprop wrote:

Perhaps unsurprising. I imagine most motorcyclists are similarly better drivers.

From what I have experienced, generally, motorcyclists are the best (and often friendliest) road users. They also know the fastest lines down descents, which is great when you can follow them at 40+ mph

Sorry but as a % of an actual group motorcyclists are the worst risk taking pricks, in towns and cities it's not great but at least they are fairly limited, on suburban roads they are a menace and I get no extra room from them than I would do your average cager.

Yeah I have to say in South East London motorcyclists or moped riders tend to be yobs or wannabe gangsters. One caused me to crash into the back of stationary flatbed truck because he undertook me with next to zero room from a bus lane, and two weeks ago another motorcyclist overtook a car and then me just as I was going round a traffic island in a residential street, with a set of no motor traffic throughflow bollards just a few hundred metres up the road, when I remonstrated with him he then started revving his engine and feigning swerving to ram me to intimidate me.

You may find nice motorcyclists in leafy areas who are hobbyists with nice bikes, but near me I'd rather take my chances with a minicab than bikers.

rliu wrote:

Yeah I have to say in South East London motorcyclists or moped riders tend to be yobs or wannabe gangsters.

I can't subscribe to that generalisation. It's like saying all cyclists are red-light-jumping yobs.

I live in central London, we have our fair share of idiots on mopeds and moped enabled crime is a big problem at the moment, but most motorcyclists are just guys and gals trying to get to work and back home again in one piece.

a1white wrote:

"...more quicvkcly" ?

DO NOT DO THE FLICKER TEST!!!