Video: London driver deliberately knocks cyclist off bike

alansmurphy wrote:

Oh wow, you actually believe your own bullshit, awesome. Could you send me pictures of the paving slabs dropped off motorway bridges?

That was worth the wait.

hirsute wrote:

If this is anything to go by https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47732663 it should be attempting to do grievous bodily harm with intent but then again, 'cyclist'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47905991

Taylor was sentenced to seven years in prison for attempting to cause grievous bodily harm and 18 months for dangerous driving, to run concurrently.

Because of his previous convictions and the fact the judge considered him a danger to the public, a further three years was added to the sentence to run consecutively.

hirsute wrote:

Let me guess, the footage will be looked at and the cyclist will be sent a NIP for some minor infringement. Meanwhile 'driver could not be identified'.

That wouldn't surprise me.  I once submitted footage to the police of an altercation with a driver who had almost wiped me out as he was on his phone.  I remonstrated with him, and the conversation lasted about thirty seconds.  His registration number was visible, as was his face, clothing and the mobile telephone that was sitting plugged into his car and resting on his left knee.

Police: 'we cannot identify the driver'.

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

Yawn! How is the fight going from behind your keyboard?

alansmurphy wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

 

Yawn! How is the fight going from behind your keyboard?

Quite well, actually.  As I've shared as recently as a month ago, I've had to make 'the fight' real twice (so far), and I would like to think that the drivers who thought it'd be fun to use me as a punchbag will think twice before trying that again.  

You're welcome.  

How is being a pussy from behind a keyboard working out for you? 

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

Much as I don't feel that violence is the answer, it seems that it's going to come to that one of these days... and nasty fuckers like the driver in this video will get a proper pasting.

Simon E wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

Much as I don't feel that violence is the answer, it seems that it's going to come to that one of these days... and nasty fuckers like the driver in this video will get a proper pasting.

About thirty years ago, there was a spate of drivers in the USA being shot by other drivers for perceived bad driving, and after a dozen or so, all drivers suddenly became extremely polite and considerate.   As to whether all cyclists should be licenced to carry a gun, I couldn't possibly comment, but I imagine it wouldn't take many dead drivers to have an effect.

But it does neatly sum up the problem; we don't get respect because we are harmless.

burtthebike wrote:

Simon E wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

bikeman01 wrote:

Hit back. 

Yep.

Much as I don't feel that violence is the answer, it seems that it's going to come to that one of these days... and nasty fuckers like the driver in this video will get a proper pasting.

About thirty years ago, there was a spate of drivers in the USA being shot by other drivers for perceived bad driving, and after a dozen or so, all drivers suddenly became extremely polite and considerate.   As to whether all cyclists should be licenced to carry a gun, I couldn't possibly comment, but I imagine it wouldn't take many dead drivers to have an effect.

But it does neatly sum up the problem; we don't get respect because we are harmless.

The perception may be that cyclists are harmless, but remember in the US or South Africa, it's quite common for at least one of the riders in a group ride to be carrying a firearm. There are still close pass incidents in the US while South Africa's record on road safety is very poor. 

If you look at these aggressive blokes in cars, very many of them seem to be in poor shape physically, certainly less fit on average than most regular cyclists. If a situation were to come to blows, I do wonder how many of these aggressive blokes would rapidly find themselves in trouble. From my time doing martial arts I know that some of the most laid back people can also be the most able to look after themselves. 

Just to be clear, I'm not a keyboard warrior by any means. Meeting aggression with violence is not a solution. My old karate sensei used to say how martial arts made you aware enough to avoid confrontation.

OldRidgeback wrote:

If you look at these aggressive blokes in cars, very many of them seem to be in poor shape physically, certainly less fit on average than most regular cyclists. If a situation were to come to blows, I do wonder how many of these aggressive blokes would rapidly find themselves in trouble.

Fighting is not like Jason Statham and a martial arts film. It takes one (fairly gentle) push to knock you off a bike, you're then all tangled up in it, trying to unclip, you're on the ground and probably getting a kicking.

To actually fight back, you'd have to get off the bike first to even stand half a chance. And then there's the risk of the bike being nicked or run over! And having to run back to the bike, pick it up, jump on it and ride off really slows down your escape.

Punching a driver through an open window is useless, the blow will lack force, you've just not got the room or angle to really do much beyond utterly enraging them (and if you're doing it through an open window, chances are you're throwing the first punch which will very much go against you in court).

You don't have to be all Bruce Lee - a street fight between untrained assailants is basically just random messy throwing of punches, shoving and kicking and it WILL hurt.

Plus you never know what's in the car - could be a weapon in there or something that can be used as a weapon. Basically, never get into a fight unless you are actually trained in how to contain an assailant and/or you have a weapon of your own which you are trained on and happy to use (because using it WILL be a charge of assault). Getting your D-lock out and threatening someone is no good if they snatch it off you and use it against you!

All the fantasies that people have about how they'd step in, do a couple of arty gymnastic kicks and throws and stand there while the girl goes "ooh, my hero!" are just that - fantasies.

I stand by my previous comment - there is no way in hell I'd have placed my bike there; I'd have jumped up the pavement and disappeared somewhere else very quickly.

crazy-legs wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

If you look at these aggressive blokes in cars, very many of them seem to be in poor shape physically, certainly less fit on average than most regular cyclists. If a situation were to come to blows, I do wonder how many of these aggressive blokes would rapidly find themselves in trouble.

Fighting is not like Jason Statham and a martial arts film. It takes one (fairly gentle) push to knock you off a bike, you're then all tangled up in it, trying to unclip, you're on the ground and probably getting a kicking.

To actually fight back, you'd have to get off the bike first to even stand half a chance. And then there's the risk of the bike being nicked or run over! And having to run back to the bike, pick it up, jump on it and ride off really slows down your escape.

Punching a driver through an open window is useless, the blow will lack force, you've just not got the room or angle to really do much beyond utterly enraging them (and if you're doing it through an open window, chances are you're throwing the first punch which will very much go against you in court).

You don't have to be all Bruce Lee - a street fight between untrained assailants is basically just random messy throwing of punches, shoving and kicking and it WILL hurt.

Plus you never know what's in the car - could be a weapon in there or something that can be used as a weapon. Basically, never get into a fight unless you are actually trained in how to contain an assailant and/or you have a weapon of your own which you are trained on and happy to use (because using it WILL be a charge of assault). Getting your D-lock out and threatening someone is no good if they snatch it off you and use it against you!

All the fantasies that people have about how they'd step in, do a couple of arty gymnastic kicks and throws and stand there while the girl goes "ooh, my hero!" are just that - fantasies.

I stand by my previous comment - there is no way in hell I'd have placed my bike there; I'd have jumped up the pavement and disappeared somewhere else very quickly.

I've seen plenty of fights over the years. Back in the day, I was in a few too and some nasty ones at that, but I'll spare you the details. Edinburgh was quite a bit rougher then than now. I know that they're not like you see on TV or on films from (painful) first hand experience.

My experience is that some of the aggressive guys are more noise than anything else. The really dangerous people I've met over the years have been fairly quiet, until they flip. The trouble is, you can't always tell just by looking at someone whether their bark will be worse than their bite.

I couldn't agree more that avoiding the aggression is always the best option. You make a good point that you never know what someone may be carrying in a car, though a D-lock could be handy if required and it's something a cyclist would reasonably be expected to be carrying, so from a legal perspective would not count as an offensive weapon. As I said before, I'm not some armchair keyboard warrior. I do know what I'm talking about. I'm also well aware that assault is a criminal act and that is something I'd definitely want to avoid. 

Avoiding conflict is what my karate teacher said all those years ago. I learned the hard way how right he was.

OldRidgeback wrote:

The perception may be that cyclists are harmless, but remember in the US or South Africa, it's quite common for at least one of the riders in a group ride to be carrying a firearm.

Evidence?  Not that I doubt you, but I've never heard of any cyclist carrying a firearm, let alone being quite common.   Where are all the reports of drivers being shot by cyclists?

OldRidgeback wrote:

The perception may be that cyclists are harmless, but remember in the US or South Africa, it's quite common for at least one of the riders in a group ride to be carrying a firearm. There are still close pass incidents in the US while South Africa's record on road safety is very poor.

If you look at these aggressive blokes in cars, very many of them seem to be in poor shape physically, certainly less fit on average than most regular cyclists. If a situation were to come to blows, I do wonder how many of these aggressive blokes would rapidly find themselves in trouble. From my time doing martial arts I know that some of the most laid back people can also be the most able to look after themselves. 

Just to be clear, I'm not a keyboard warrior by any means. Meeting aggression with violence is not a solution. My old karate sensei used to say how martial arts made you aware enough to avoid confrontation.

It's easier for car drivers to have weapons (more space for them in a car), so I don't think that weaponising cyclists is a good tactic.

Also, even the best martial artist is going to have trouble defending against someone with a knife. To demonstrate this, have a martial artist attempt to spar with someone holding a marker pen and see what the results are.

I think that cyclists are better off arming themselves with cameras and let the police deal with the nutters (assuming that you live in an area that has police that give a shit about cyclists).

hawkinspeter wrote:

It's easier for car drivers to have weapons (more space for them in a car), so I don't think that weaponising cyclists is a good tactic.

Also, even the best martial artist is going to have trouble defending against someone with a knife. To demonstrate this, have a martial artist attempt to spar with someone holding a marker pen and see what the results are.

I think that cyclists are better off arming themselves with cameras and let the police deal with the nutters (assuming that you live in an area that has police that give a shit about cyclists).

Agreed, I'm not going to even pretend to be a hard-man.

Though I guess there's the other possibility of fleeing, but just slow enough to encourage them to give chase on foot.  With luck they'll keel over in a gammony heap.

OldRidgeback wrote:

 

If you look at these aggressive blokes in cars, very many of them seem to be in poor shape physically, certainly less fit on average than most regular cyclists. If a situation were to come to blows, I do wonder how many of these aggressive blokes would rapidly find themselves in trouble.

There was a great video some time back of a portly football fan running on the pitch to confront Didier Drogba who obviously looked quite small on the blokes telly. On getting closer to Drogba he realised the bloke was built like a brick shithouse and started looking around for stewards to 'hold him back'

bikeman01 wrote:

And despite his being knocked off, the van driver behind is impatient at being held up and sounds his horn.  

Cyclists are viewed as a bunch of lightweights who can be picked upon without retaliation.  We need to re-address this perception and establish a culture of waryness around us  - much the same as teenagers in hoodies have done for themselves. Hit back. 

 

Exactly this!

alansmurphy wrote:

That's attempted murder, he should expect a £200 fine and £80 victim surcharge...

But only if the driver comes forward and can prove that his car was damaged.

maviczap wrote:

Let's see if the Met take this on?

Disappointing to see no one stopped to see if this guy was ok. That's modern society for you

That's modern car-driving society for you.

A couple of years ago, I was cycling across Shooter's Hill Road at the crossing I mentioned yesterday (the one next to Duke Humphrey Road) near to Greenwich Park.  As you get close to the entrance to the Park, there's a road running at 90°, with a mini roundabout on it.

I was about to cross, and there were about five or six cyclists around me, when an almighty crash to our left alerted us to the fact that a scooter rider had just binned it.  The scooter was doing cartwheels (it thankfully didn't hit anyone), and the rider was following it, tumbling over as he did so.

Every single cylist stopped and ran to the scooter rider's aid.  Every single one of us.  I and another bloke helped him up, whilst a couple of other people got his scooter upright and off the road.  As we were doing so, we were assailed by a veritable caucophony of car horns from the seven or eight car drivers who had been forced to stop. 

Two or three of the cyclists said they'd stay with the bloke, and an ambulance was called, so the rest of us left and cycled on. 

Not one driver got out of his or her car.

maviczap wrote:

Let's see if the Met take this on?

Disappointing to see no one stopped to see if this guy was ok. That's modern society for you

That's because they were all thinking how the poor sod deserved it, bl00dy cyclist, cos the Times told them it's War