Driver jailed for killing Northern Irish cyclist Gavin Moore

Ian531 wrote:

I was wondering if someone with a knowledge of the law could tell me why the driver of the 4x4 was not charged with involuntary manslaughter. What is the difference between involuntary manslaughter and causing death by dangerous driving?

" Gross negligence manslaughter – a duty of care towards the victim is breached as a result of gross negligence by the defendant, leading to the death of the victim"

Does this not apply in this case? Forgive my ignorance in advance if this seems a stupid question.

 

I honestly don't know. I suspect that it's because 'motoring' offences tend to be treated differently anyway and there is a more specific offence eg 'death by dangerous driving' rather than the more generic 'manslaughter'.

Possibly similar sentencing guidelines, but no option to disqualify or give points with manslaughter???

zero_trooper wrote:

Ian531 wrote:

I was wondering if someone with a knowledge of the law could tell me why the driver of the 4x4 was not charged with involuntary manslaughter. What is the difference between involuntary manslaughter and causing death by dangerous driving?

" Gross negligence manslaughter – a duty of care towards the victim is breached as a result of gross negligence by the defendant, leading to the death of the victim"

Does this not apply in this case? Forgive my ignorance in advance if this seems a stupid question.

 

I honestly don't know. I suspect that it's because 'motoring' offences tend to be treated differently anyway and there is a more specific offence eg 'death by dangerous driving' rather than the more generic 'manslaughter'.

Possibly similar sentencing guidelines, but no option to disqualify or give points with manslaughter???

This is a NI case, so there may be subtle differences, but in England & Wales the CPS charging guidance (https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-charging ) says: 

"Gross negligence manslaughter should not be charged unless there is something to set the case apart from those cases where a statutory offence such as causing death by dangerous driving or causing death by careless driving could be proved – see R v Governor of Holloway Ex. P Jennings [1983] R.T.R. 1. This will normally be evidence to show a very high risk of death, making the case one of the utmost gravity. This is in contrast to the statutory offences where all that is required is evidence that the driving was dangerous and that the manner of driving caused the death of another person. "  

brooksby wrote:

So what actually happened?  Did he run in the back of them or was it an overtaking without looking?  Can't find further details, but did find this picture on the BBC:

From what I belive & heard from local cyclists. On a dual carriageway Mr Cheung went to undertake a car which was overtaking the group of cyclists & the result was he plowed into the back of the group of cyclists.

niallmcf wrote:

brooksby wrote:

So what actually happened?  Did he run in the back of them or was it an overtaking without looking?  Can't find further details, but did find this picture on the BBC:

From what I belive & heard from local cyclists. On a dual carriageway Mr Cheung went to undertake a car which was overtaking the group of cyclists & the result was he plowed into the back of the group of cyclists.

 Seriously?!??

niallmcf wrote:

brooksby wrote:

So what actually happened?  Did he run in the back of them or was it an overtaking without looking?  Can't find further details, but did find this picture on the BBC:

From what I belive & heard from local cyclists. On a dual carriageway Mr Cheung went to undertake a car which was overtaking the group of cyclists & the result was he plowed into the back of the group of cyclists.

 

^^ That is horrendous. It also explains a bit why he was charged with dangerous driving. Still, how does the sentence match the outcome of the crime? Kill someone, main another, traumatise many others  = 3 year driving ban, 6 months in jail. 

He's ended a life and wrecked at least two families. But it's okay, his lawyer probably says he's very sorry and I'm sure he is, now.

It's like UK law cannot enforce the fact that taking a life whilst driving a two ton vehicle is actually is very bad. In the eyes of the law it's sort of naughty, but sort of understandable cause you know, driving can be hectic sometimes and we all have lapses in judgement sometimes right... 

I read an article about how in Finland (and some other EU countries), speeding fines (to take one example) are based on a method of 'fines per days work, based upon your income'.  So it hits everyone in the same % manner whether you earn £200k or £20k.

In the UK I think a fixed penalty fine is £100 fine and three points. (Only changes if you contest it). So there's NO real immediate incentive to travel within the speed limits. If we could fine someone £3000 (based on an estimated £1000 disposable income per month) for doing 75 in a 60.. then I'm quite sure we'd see people calm down on the roads and less undertaking, overtaking and tragedies like this take place. 

peted76 wrote:

I read an article about how in Finland (and some other EU countries), speeding fines (to take one example) are based on a method of 'fines per days work, based upon your income'.  So it hits everyone in the same % manner whether you earn £200k or £20k.

In the UK I think a fixed penalty fine is £100 fine and three points. (Only changes if you contest it). So there's NO real immediate incentive to travel within the speed limits. If we could fine someone £3000 (based on an estimated £1000 disposable income per month) for doing 75 in a 60.. then I'm quite sure we'd see people calm down on the roads and less undertaking, overtaking and tragedies like this take place.

I recall that there was a trial of a similar scheme in this country, but it was dropped because rich, influential people had to pay more, and so the tories stopped it.

burtthebike wrote:

I recall that there was a trial of a similar scheme in this country, but it was dropped because rich, influential people had to pay more, and so the tories stopped it.

Not true. You read about footballers being fined £75k  for speeding all the time.

racyrich wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

I recall that there was a trial of a similar scheme in this country, but it was dropped because rich, influential people had to pay more, and so the tories stopped it.

 

Not true. You read about footballers being fined £75k  for speeding all the time.

Indeed... the fines were updated to be a % of your weekly income, although its to a maximum of £1000 or £2500 on motorways (which seems unnecessarily regressive, and odd given that motorways are safer than single carriageway roads)

https://www.evo.co.uk/news/18773/uk-speeding-fines-2019-what-are-the-lat...

burtthebike wrote:

peted76 wrote:

I read an article about how in Finland (and some other EU countries), speeding fines (to take one example) are based on a method of 'fines per days work, based upon your income'.  So it hits everyone in the same % manner whether you earn £200k or £20k.

In the UK I think a fixed penalty fine is £100 fine and three points. (Only changes if you contest it). So there's NO real immediate incentive to travel within the speed limits. If we could fine someone £3000 (based on an estimated £1000 disposable income per month) for doing 75 in a 60.. then I'm quite sure we'd see people calm down on the roads and less undertaking, overtaking and tragedies like this take place.

I recall that there was a trial of a similar scheme in this country, but it was dropped because rich, influential people had to pay more, and so the tories stopped it.

The Conservatives have been the only party to introduce higher speeding fines for those that are breaking the speed limit by a higher figure, what have Labour done during their tenures on crime of any sort?

Spend big but actually the grand sum of nothing except set crime targets that they knew they would already hit as they were already falling at that rate during the previous Conservative government? Go read the assessments of Labour's tenure with respect to crime and how they set lower targets when they spent a shed load of cash (in their secnd term) on policing and other areas but actually set a lower target than the trend that already had been achieved when they came into power and had manifested itself in their first term of office, Labour did nothing to curb the motorist, typical fact twisting weasly socialist words!

bike_food wrote:

Quote:

...also helped clubs buy action cameras to record poor driving

The footage from which they'll subsequently ignore once submitted.

It says....

Earlier this month, we reported how a driver had lost an appeal against his conviction for dangerous driving in connection with an incident in July last year in which he made a close pass on a number of cyclists from County Londonderry-based Spires CC.

The driver, Patrick John Kelly, was fined £400 and banned from driving for 12 months after police decided to refer the case for prosecution due to his insistence when interviewed by officers that he had done nothing wrong.

.......that's not ignoring the problem. Driver got six points as well. That result shows what can be done and a lot of mainland police forces (and associated CPS) should hang their heads in shame.

racyrich wrote:

Wow, that sentence makes the roads so much safer! FFS.

To be fair, the fact that this individual has been charged with dangerous driving rather than the default careless that the CPS and Fiscal fall back on here on the mainland is to be commended. That and the fact the jury delivered a guilty verdict is good news. While we would love to see a heavier sentence the judge has had to follow the guidelines provided. Cheung will now have to sit an enhanced test made more challenging that he's probably been driving for 40 years and tests are more challenging. Also insurance companies won't touch him with a barge pole. 
 

I'm also impressed that the PSNI works closely with clubs across the province as part of their road safety campaigns. I can't even get Police Scotland to operate Close Pass initiatives in my region.