Police to hand out bike lights in Edinburgh as part of #LightUp campaign

HoarseMann wrote:

I'm not sure they are really in any position to 'educate' people about bicycle lighting when they can't get it right in their video!

The bike shown has no rear red reflector or amber pedal reflectors.

Plus the lights that are being given away are shown in the video to have a 'steady' mode, but they do not appear to conform to the relevant British or European Standard.

I know it's not the police's fault that the regulations are in such a mess, but still...

The flashing blinking lights are actually illegal to use on the road. The bike industry sort of ran away with this But the Hi way code for rear light have to be a steady red light and visible from X amount of feet
The flashing red light is accepted worldwide on a bike but technically it is illegal

Mybike wrote:

HoarseMann wrote:

I'm not sure they are really in any position to 'educate' people about bicycle lighting when they can't get it right in their video!

The bike shown has no rear red reflector or amber pedal reflectors.

Plus the lights that are being given away are shown in the video to have a 'steady' mode, but they do not appear to conform to the relevant British or European Standard.

I know it's not the police's fault that the regulations are in such a mess, but still...

The flashing blinking lights are actually illegal to use on the road. The bike industry sort of ran away with this But the Hi way code for rear light have to be a steady red light and visible from X amount of feet
The flashing red light is accepted worldwide on a bike but technically it is illegal

You're nearly 15 years out of date.

Marin92 wrote:

The requirement to have amber reflectors on pedals is out of date. Many cyclists have clip in pedals, so the pedal cannot be seen. I have front and back dynamo light as well as Exposure Flashinig lights. I can be seen from hundreds of metres away. The idea that I can be fined for not having amber pedal reflectors to out of touch.

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

Oldfatgit wrote:

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You can also get cheap Shimano SM-PD22 clip ons for regular SPD pedals. They occupy one side of your SPDs and provide a flat platform with front and rear reflectors. So, yes you lose the dual sided clip in, but they do let you potter about with regular soled shoes and make the pedals compliant in terms of the reflector requirement.

I used them for years without issue, but have read some folk describing them as too easy to knock off inadvertently.

£10 on Rose Bikes, £8 on Amazon.

Oldfatgit wrote:

Marin92 wrote:

The requirement to have amber reflectors on pedals is out of date. Many cyclists have clip in pedals, so the pedal cannot be seen. I have front and back dynamo light as well as Exposure Flashinig lights. I can be seen from hundreds of metres away. The idea that I can be fined for not having amber pedal reflectors to out of touch.

 

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

Reflectors like most of the other stuff pushed onto people who ride bikes is yet another diversion away from the problem, they aren't helpful at all, they like rear lights simply allow motorists to go faster than they should do at night (see HC rule 126) and take less responsibility for their actions which as a whole diverts away from their crimes when they kill and maim. Even the police ignore the fact that cyclists when having lights are still to blame for their deaths, or that the light wasn't bright enough despite exceeding the minimum that legislation decrees.

if you can't see another road user without lights/reflective garments or unlit object in the highway by your own eyes or beam of your headlight such that you do not crash into it or make that person feel fear of harm by not avoiding them with an amount of space and at a reasonable speed to not do so then you are not fit to be travelling on the highway by motorvehicle, cycle or even on foot as you are not safe to others, you need to adapt YOUR behaviour, not others to your reckless/dangerous actions, that's how a civilised society should work as it does in most aspects in the Western world (but clearly not all)

The law and people like you need to move with the times and modern understanding as to where the problem lies, because the law and your thinking as with many others is massively out of date, the legislation is part of the problem that creates more victims and victims that are being blamed for their own demise and people being fearful of simply getting from A-B whilst causing no or negligible harm to others (which we know to be true for people on bikes by the stats)

You couldn't be more wrong.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

Marin92 wrote:

The requirement to have amber reflectors on pedals is out of date. Many cyclists have clip in pedals, so the pedal cannot be seen. I have front and back dynamo light as well as Exposure Flashinig lights. I can be seen from hundreds of metres away. The idea that I can be fined for not having amber pedal reflectors to out of touch.

 

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

Reflectors like most of the other stuff pushed onto people who ride bikes is yet another diversion away from the problem, they aren't helpful at all, they like rear lights simply allow motorists to go faster than they should do at night (see HC rule 126) and take less responsibility for their actions which as a whole diverts away from their crimes when they kill and maim. Even the police ignore the fact that cyclists when having lights are still to blame for their deaths, or that the light wasn't bright enough despite exceeding the minimum that legislation decrees.

if you can't see another road user without lights/reflective garments or unlit object in the highway by your own eyes or beam of your headlight such that you do not crash into it or make that person feel fear of harm by not avoiding them with an amount of space and at a reasonable speed to not do so then you are not fit to be travelling on the highway by motorvehicle, cycle or even on foot as you are not safe to others, you need to adapt YOUR behaviour, not others to your reckless/dangerous actions, that's how a civilised society should work as it does in most aspects in the Western world (but clearly not all)

The law and people like you need to move with the times and modern understanding as to where the problem lies, because the law and your thinking as with many others is massively out of date, the legislation is part of the problem that creates more victims and victims that are being blamed for their own demise and people being fearful of simply getting from A-B whilst causing no or negligible harm to others (which we know to be true for people on bikes by the stats)

You couldn't be more wrong.

No idea where you live.

Where I live, it gets dark.
Not grey, not streetlight orange, or LED white, but dark.
If the moon isn't out, you can't see 5m in front of you, walking.

So, where I am lights, and reflectors are a required part of the kit on an evening ride ... even if the reflectors are there just so the SAR guys can find you when the batteries die.

Legislation needs tightening up, but it's certainly not blaming cyclists for getting hit by arseholes in cars.

This utopia society you speak of hasn't existed since the 70s.

If you want to go for a ride round here, with no lights on ... feel free.

But I ain't gonna feel sorry for you when you're being scraped off the floor

Oldfatgit wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

Marin92 wrote:

The requirement to have amber reflectors on pedals is out of date. Many cyclists have clip in pedals, so the pedal cannot be seen. I have front and back dynamo light as well as Exposure Flashinig lights. I can be seen from hundreds of metres away. The idea that I can be fined for not having amber pedal reflectors to out of touch.

 

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

Reflectors like most of the other stuff pushed onto people who ride bikes is yet another diversion away from the problem, they aren't helpful at all, they like rear lights simply allow motorists to go faster than they should do at night (see HC rule 126) and take less responsibility for their actions which as a whole diverts away from their crimes when they kill and maim. Even the police ignore the fact that cyclists when having lights are still to blame for their deaths, or that the light wasn't bright enough despite exceeding the minimum that legislation decrees.

if you can't see another road user without lights/reflective garments or unlit object in the highway by your own eyes or beam of your headlight such that you do not crash into it or make that person feel fear of harm by not avoiding them with an amount of space and at a reasonable speed to not do so then you are not fit to be travelling on the highway by motorvehicle, cycle or even on foot as you are not safe to others, you need to adapt YOUR behaviour, not others to your reckless/dangerous actions, that's how a civilised society should work as it does in most aspects in the Western world (but clearly not all)

The law and people like you need to move with the times and modern understanding as to where the problem lies, because the law and your thinking as with many others is massively out of date, the legislation is part of the problem that creates more victims and victims that are being blamed for their own demise and people being fearful of simply getting from A-B whilst causing no or negligible harm to others (which we know to be true for people on bikes by the stats)

You couldn't be more wrong.

No idea where you live. Where I live, it gets dark. Not grey, not streetlight orange, or LED white, but dark. If the moon isn't out, you can't see 5m in front of you, walking. So, where I am lights, and reflectors are a required part of the kit on an evening ride ... even if the reflectors are there just so the SAR guys can find you when the batteries die. Legislation needs tightening up, but it's certainly not blaming cyclists for getting hit by arseholes in cars. This utopia society you speak of hasn't existed since the 70s. If you want to go for a ride round here, with no lights on ... feel free. But I ain't gonna feel sorry for you when you're being scraped off the floor

Stay ignorant, until people like you change and actually grasp where the problem lies and what the solutions are then we'll never improve things, scraping people off the road is more prevalent when you're doing everything and more than the legal requirement and still you'll get victim blamed, so you're still wrong in your thinking sonshine!

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

Marin92 wrote:

The requirement to have amber reflectors on pedals is out of date. Many cyclists have clip in pedals, so the pedal cannot be seen. I have front and back dynamo light as well as Exposure Flashinig lights. I can be seen from hundreds of metres away. The idea that I can be fined for not having amber pedal reflectors to out of touch.

 

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

Reflectors like most of the other stuff pushed onto people who ride bikes is yet another diversion away from the problem, they aren't helpful at all, they like rear lights simply allow motorists to go faster than they should do at night (see HC rule 126) and take less responsibility for their actions which as a whole diverts away from their crimes when they kill and maim. Even the police ignore the fact that cyclists when having lights are still to blame for their deaths, or that the light wasn't bright enough despite exceeding the minimum that legislation decrees.

if you can't see another road user without lights/reflective garments or unlit object in the highway by your own eyes or beam of your headlight such that you do not crash into it or make that person feel fear of harm by not avoiding them with an amount of space and at a reasonable speed to not do so then you are not fit to be travelling on the highway by motorvehicle, cycle or even on foot as you are not safe to others, you need to adapt YOUR behaviour, not others to your reckless/dangerous actions, that's how a civilised society should work as it does in most aspects in the Western world (but clearly not all)

The law and people like you need to move with the times and modern understanding as to where the problem lies, because the law and your thinking as with many others is massively out of date, the legislation is part of the problem that creates more victims and victims that are being blamed for their own demise and people being fearful of simply getting from A-B whilst causing no or negligible harm to others (which we know to be true for people on bikes by the stats)

You couldn't be more wrong.

No idea where you live. Where I live, it gets dark. Not grey, not streetlight orange, or LED white, but dark. If the moon isn't out, you can't see 5m in front of you, walking. So, where I am lights, and reflectors are a required part of the kit on an evening ride ... even if the reflectors are there just so the SAR guys can find you when the batteries die. Legislation needs tightening up, but it's certainly not blaming cyclists for getting hit by arseholes in cars. This utopia society you speak of hasn't existed since the 70s. If you want to go for a ride round here, with no lights on ... feel free. But I ain't gonna feel sorry for you when you're being scraped off the floor

Stay ignorant, until people like you change and actually grasp where the problem lies and what the solutions are then we'll never improve things, scraping people off the road is more prevalent when you're doing everything and more than the legal requirement and still you'll get victim blamed, so you're still wrong in your thinking sonshine!

I'm fully aware of where the blame lies. 
I'm also fully aware that it's not always the car drivers fault.

I'm also fully aware that if you get hit through no fault of your own, in the dark with no lights on - the other parties insurance ain't going to pay out.

So, if its all the same to you, I'm quite happy to spend a little bit of my hard earned cash on the lights the law requires me to have - even it its then so my wife can afford to bury me.

I'm also well aware that it doesn't matter what you do, how bright or reflective the clothes are, or how bright your lights are, if the other person ain't paying attention, or is drunk, or on their phone, or just being a twat your life can change  or end - in an instant.

Oldfatgit wrote:

Not quite.

Reflectors on pedals are more helpful than you might think. There is nothing else like the movement of the pedals, and because of this movement, they help grab the eye.

You can get SPD's with reflectors - I have them on mine after a talk with my solicitor advised that not having them could be seen as contributory negligence.

You might find a reflective strip at the back of your shoes - this doesn't replace the reflector, but it can help.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00914QFKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is not the law that should move with the technology in this case, but the technology should move  with the law.

I agree, when I was a driver back in the day, moving pedals were often the first thing you'd see of a cyclist at night.

These days I've got strips of Scotchlite self adhesive reflective strip tape on my pedals these days, as there's no way to fit 'amber reflectors' on them. It's cheap and (I hope) effective.

ktache wrote:

I think this is one of the better ideas.  Better than a fine.  And it's lights and not Hi Viz.

You are right, I read the article too quickly. The hi viz was a reference to the previous exercise.

Oldfatgit wrote:

There is no excuse for riding without lights in the dark.

Lights broken.
Stolen while the bike was locked up.
Didn't fit them cos it was "only" a quick trip to the shops but ended up meeting friends at the pub and staying out far later than expected.
Batteries died.
They have got lights but they're wearing a long coat or carrying a bag which obscures it (usually without the rider even knowing).

There's loads of excuses for riding without lights! Depending on the person / bike, some might be more valid than others at any given time - maybe it's "only" a few minutes ride home so they'll chance it.

Less of an issue on bikes anyway - you can just jump on the pavement and ride/push along there. The many many drivers out there with faulty lights on their cars can't do that...

crazy-legs wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

There is no excuse for riding without lights in the dark.

Lights broken.
Stolen while the bike was locked up.
Didn't fit them cos it was "only" a quick trip to the shops but ended up meeting friends at the pub and staying out far later than expected.
Batteries died.
They have got lights but they're wearing a long coat or carrying a bag which obscures it (usually without the rider even knowing).

There's loads of excuses for riding without lights! Depending on the person / bike, some might be more valid than others at any given time - maybe it's "only" a few minutes ride home so they'll chance it.

Less of an issue on bikes anyway - you can just jump on the pavement and ride/push along there. The many many drivers out there with faulty lights on their cars can't do that...

All of those are excuses, yes. None of them are valid reasons though. 

Lights stolen? Push it. 

Didn't fit them cos you were out later than expected? Push it. 

Batteries died? Push it. 

Long coat/carrying a bag? Dress appropriately or move your lights. Or push it. 

Get sick of seeing people on here who think the law just somehow doesn't apply to them. Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. 

Mathemagician wrote:

crazy-legs wrote:

Oldfatgit wrote:

There is no excuse for riding without lights in the dark.

Lights broken.
Stolen while the bike was locked up.
Didn't fit them cos it was "only" a quick trip to the shops but ended up meeting friends at the pub and staying out far later than expected.
Batteries died.
They have got lights but they're wearing a long coat or carrying a bag which obscures it (usually without the rider even knowing).

There's loads of excuses for riding without lights! Depending on the person / bike, some might be more valid than others at any given time - maybe it's "only" a few minutes ride home so they'll chance it.

Less of an issue on bikes anyway - you can just jump on the pavement and ride/push along there. The many many drivers out there with faulty lights on their cars can't do that...

 

All of those are excuses, yes. None of them are valid reasons though. 

Lights stolen? Push it. 

Didn't fit them cos you were out later than expected? Push it. 

Batteries died? Push it. 

Long coat/carrying a bag? Dress appropriately or move your lights. Or push it. 

Get sick of seeing people on here who think the law just somehow doesn't apply to them. Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. 

I think your ire would be better directed at the self-entitled motorists who insist on speeding, using mobile phones whilst driving and not caring about other road users or their safety. I've never felt endangered by a cyclist with faulty/missing lights.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Mathemagician wrote:

Get sick of seeing people on here who think the law just somehow doesn't apply to them. Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. 

I think your ire would be better directed at the self-entitled motorists who insist on speeding, using mobile phones whilst driving and not caring about other road users or their safety. I've never felt endangered by a cyclist with faulty/missing lights.

Talk about making my point for me. This pathetic whataboutery is so symptomatic of the entitled crybaby nature of so many commenters on here. Ooo, well I personally have never felt endangered by a cyclist without lights, therefore that's not a problem for anyone anywhere is it? What a fucking tool.

Mathemagician wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Mathemagician wrote:

Get sick of seeing people on here who think the law just somehow doesn't apply to them. Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions. 

I think your ire would be better directed at the self-entitled motorists who insist on speeding, using mobile phones whilst driving and not caring about other road users or their safety. I've never felt endangered by a cyclist with faulty/missing lights.

Talk about making my point for me. This pathetic whataboutery is so symptomatic of the entitled crybaby nature of so many commenters on here. Ooo, well I personally have never felt endangered by a cyclist without lights, therefore that's not a problem for anyone anywhere is it? What a fucking tool.

Well, you've managed to string together some nice words there, but I don't know what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say that we should ignore the data of road safety/KSIs and instead put as much effort as possible into kitting out cyclists with PPE?

(Yes - I totally get that lights are a legal requirement after dark on bikes and I always use them myself, but they are so far down the hierarchy of importance that it's insane that the police are involved in handing them out)