Trans track cyclist Rachel McKinnon blames Donald Trump Junior for increase in hate mail

Have seperate sports catergories, this resolves matters and actually makes sport more inclusive full stop.

This would be exactly like disability sports, inclusivity, like minded people taking part so amongst others who are thinking in a similar fashion and have gone through same/similar life situations, that can only be a positive thing can it not?

It also creates a fair playing field, a safe and threat free environment away from contraversy with regards to the fairness aspect.

The numbers of people globally should mean that there are going to be plenty of athletes in all catergories of sport so there's absolutely no reason not to do it.

Currently the situation is not inclusive at all, creates horrible grey areas, divisiveness and hate and clearly has a significant element of there not being as level a playing field as we want.

Having seperate events for trans athletes would benefit trans people full stop, never mind the people who might want to compete but who don't because of fear and so many other issues that can crop up.

McKinnon should be putting her efforts in to pushing for that instead of what she is currently.

For 99% of us it's simple. Our DNA, anatomy, general appearance and 'identity' all coincide. For those few where it doesn't, it isn't simple. It might be hard to identify if they're male or female, they might not even be either. The one thing we can be sure of is that they are human beings. 

None of which helps organised competitive sport, which by its nature likes clear cut categories. 

Let me ask one question, if McKinnon committed a crime and left DNA at the scence..  would the police look for a male or female suspect?   Well there you go...  

To an extent, I agree with you in terms of framing a debate. However, as you point out if we’re unable to agree on where to start from then you’re right, there’s no debate to be had. In this case, the question that is being asked is: are the UCI rules for transgender participants fit for purpose? If you, or others, want to shift that debate to: should trans people be considered solely by their natal sex/gender then fine, have at it. But it’s not a debate that I want to be involved in as my mind’s already made up that the fairest, kindest way to treat someone is how they ask to be treated. Of course, there are limits, but agreeing to call a friend Sarah, not Simon, and say ‘she’ rather than ‘he’ doesn’t trouble the limits of my goodwill.

I don't think believe anyone would go through the trauma of gender re assignment simply in order to win at sport, that's crazy talk.

But there is the question of whether there is an advnatange, any who grows up male will developdifferent from someone female. There may be a case that after sufficient time has passed muscle mass will tend to stabilise to the new gender, but nothing will change a persons body shape, and height and limb length can be an advantage in many sports.

The research that needs to be carried out on gender transitioning should be has athlete x moved up the centiles as a result of transitioning. i.e. was the athlete in the top 10% as a man, but following gender reaasignment finds themself in the top 5% of women for example. That would show a clear unfair advantage.

What are rhe legal limits for testosterone in women athletes, are they the same as for transgender? if not why are transgender athletes allowed a level that would cause isqualification in other female athletes?

If the answer to these questions is 1) on average transgender athletes perform at equal or lower levels than they did previously, and 2) legal limits ar the same, then I can see no reason for poreventing competition.

Call me an old-fashioned Feminist, but if your sense of natural justice kicks in seeing previously-male athletes beating other female athletes makes you uncomfortable then it should do. I am with Martina Navratilova, a champion of equal rights and pay for women; someone who defected from the East and came out as a Lesbian athlete. If she isn't 'woke' enough for you because she can see an unjust situation, then I don't want to be woke.

Luckily Dr Rachel McKinnon isn't really good enough to turn this from a slanging match into an actual gamechanger for sport. But I find the accusations of Transphobia against ex-pro athletes speaking up for the current generation cheap, as it belittles Transpeoples progress and advocacy to attack women.

Currently, transgender going into female are not allowed more then 10 units over a 12 month monitoring period. Currently men can naturally range from 7 to 29, however women rarely go over 3 units naturally. So that is the discrepency RR is mentioning. I'm not sure if there is an amount that would be banned in women though but I'm assuming anything higher would look suspiciously like medical help. 

I seem to remember a blow up about 10 years ago when the IOC was investigating the genes of an African female athelete to determine whether they were male (even though they were "born female".)

Dr Rachel McKinnon strikes me as the sort of person totally focused on their own rights at the expense of other peoples.

I'm pretty sure every single member of the British female cycling track team would wipe the floor with me in any kind of cycle race, but that doesn't mean it is OK for me to insist on being allowed to enter a female only event.

To use her own quote.

"I believe you’re a woman for all of society except this massive central part that is sport"

I'll go further in stating that I have huge admiration for people in her position. It cannot be easy at any level but it is wrong to pretend that basic physiology can be fundamentally changed with hormone therapy.

Wow all the pig ignorant people are back out on this thread.

I'm surprised at the comments - normally this site is a bit more woke.

But I don't disagree with many of them. While people are free to undertake gender surgery, and hormone therapies, the process of "transitioning" as they call it is purely artificial. Why the need for hormones? Why the need for surgery? Wouldn't it be simpler, in an open society which is pretty tolerant, just to reconcile yourself to your body and live the way you need to without altering your body.

It just seems like an extreme version of 'dressing up'. It's exciting to pretend that you're a soldier, pirate, princess or whatever, but you are not those things just by putting on the appearance.

Sport is just competition, and you can compete against anyone, but the split between men and women is not an arbitrary one; it's based on physical limitations caused by sex genetics. Fundamentally that's the separator and unfortunately intersex and trans athletes cannot knock down that divide, but if they want to compete, why not do it against other trans or intersex athletes. The competition will be a lot stearner and winning will actually mean something because you bested your peers....

I might just get a wig and mix it with the women, pick up some easy prize money. 

Why does 'she' not compete in mens races? Just for balance?

Who is Rachel McKinnon? Are we talking about Veronica Ivy? https://twitter.com/SportIsARight

The male born cyclist, with a penis who likes to tell everyone it's their human right to partake in sport. Sport is not a human right.

Here are your human rights. 

Article 2: Right to life
Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour
Article 5: Right to liberty and security
Article 6: Right to a fair trial
Article 7: No punishment without law
Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion
Article 10: Freedom of expression
Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association
Article 12: Right to marry and start a family
Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms
Protocol 1, Article 1: Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property
Protocol 1, Article 2: Right to education
Protocol 1, Article 3: Right to participate in free elections
Protocol 13, Article 1: Abolition of the death penalty

Under article 9, I've got the freedom to believe that whatever it wants to call itself from one day to the next is male, was born male and has not transitioned to anything other than being male, despite what Canada allowed under it's law. In the UK, that person would not be classed as female. So under my freedom of thought, expression and belief, born male, still possesses male genitalia, so therefore MALE.

I think this issue will be unresolved for possibly decades, until there are many more trans athletes and the governing bodies will have to come up with some sort of solution, and even that may be a compromise that pleases no one. 
I have every sympathy with transgender individuals and fully support their integration into society as their desired gender.  But participation in competitive sport is a separate issue, and women have their own category in most sports for obvious reasons.  Despite Dr McKinnon's assertions, she has a definite physical advantage over cis-women (those born female) by having had the benefit of testosterone on her muscle and bone development in her first few decades.  The fact that she hasn't had testosterone in her system since 2012 is not a good argument since her bone structure and musculature is still there, although perhaps slightly reduced, but still superior to most cis-women's.   The fact that she doesn't always win means nothing either.  She still has an advantage and it could be said that she is depriving a cis-woman of a place on the podium.
I don't know what the answer is, but competition has to be seen to be fair, and this doesn't look fair to me.

Would McKinnon's supporters offer the same level of defensiveness to Ms Anthony Joshua if "she" decided to take up female boxing?

Just asking.....

Anyway....I just don't know why would world have to tolerate people who can't tolerate even themsel.... or the intolerant's opinion....
If he want to stay fair stay away from racing and just ride for fun. Racing is a measure to your mates. But it is unfair to measure male to female athlets. Thats why there are races for men and women. Gender is given, tolerance is learnable. This guy can't tolerate the weaker performance of real women and race against them.

Best person to promote my fav. clothing brand: "An unfair advantage..."

“If you think I have an unfair competitive advantage, consider this: I lose most of my races." and "How can I have an unfair advantage over her if she beats me most of the time?" are the weakest arguments I've heard in quite some time.

Who, exactly, has had opportunities taken away from them?

And if you're going to refer to Rachel McKinnon as 'he' don't expect anyone to take your arguments about inclusion - or not - seriously.