Road Safety Minister says GB's roads safer for cyclists than those in Netherlands (+ videos)

If twenty is plenty, expect to see legislation requiring officially-santioned speedometers on bikes, otherwise we would be technically exempt from the speed limit ("how am I supposed to know I was speeding, Officer?")

I'm not sure if I actually prefer a thirty limit - I *know* the cars wish to overtake. A 20 limit means that someone religiously obeying the speed limit will stay behind me, in which case I can take the lane. But if they turn onto a different road behind me, and someone less prudent replaces them, suddenly the game changes and I need to be on the left.

I liked the comment about cycle lanes being the first thing that got salted/gritted I think in this country it will be the last (if ever) so please those people that advocate for seperate cycle lanes think upon that before you next speak. or perhaps a nice cycle ride round the local park (in my area this is where the cycling facilities are) where you can be chased by dogs or have to wait while the owner curses you because he/she has to wind in the 100 foot dog lead so you can pass and then find that the exit from the park isn't at the corner it's half way back up the way you've just come and/or it dumps you out on the wrong side of a barriered dual carriage way.

Josie Dew, I'm sure she's a lovely person in real life and probably doesnt care a jot about what some faceless nobody on the internet like me has to say but she does my box right in.

Just watched it on the parliament player.

LOADS of good points raised.

Paul Maynard MP, get him to get with Jon Snow and start a government group and sort things out.

Jon Snow made some great statements, James Harding also had some good ideas.

Everytime i heard Josie Dew i though....STFU, it was all, i do this and i live here, i cycle this far, i had this experience with a driver, i cycle with my children on my bike, i cycle to school, i've cycled since i was 10. DO ME A FAVOUR, this meeting was not about you. Also just for added effect i'll put my drinks bottle right infront of me.

Don't get my wrong, I like Josie Dew, she's a cycling chef like myself, but i just don't think she was the right person to have there.

You don't get to be a minister because you're intelligent.

I have just watched those videos, and particularly the first one pretty much makes my blood boil.......

The way to appeal to "OUR BETTER ANGELS" IS TO LEGISLATE SO THAT MOTORISTS RESPECT CYCLISTS AND RECEIVE APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENTS WHEN THEY MURDER THEM.

For your information, if Dutch cyclists dare to venture off the toy-town "infrastructure" even for a moment, when it is not suitable, they are abused to a greater extent than cyclists here are on the roads, and unfortunately, the motorists have the law behind them in Holland.

Beware, if we get "infrastructure" we might get compulsion.

I was in Belgium recently and it broke my heart to see a peleton of cyclists crammed onto (teetering along on a) raised pavement area, when there was a perfectly good, wide road with hardly any cars on it to cycle on.

I imagine chuckles and raised eyebrows in various Dutch government offices, plus comments along the lines of "oh those f**king clueless British idiots" (in Dutch, that is)..

With the price of fuel i think cycling will be more popular very soon.That said i think the tories will not be too interested while driving their Bentleys.As for the minister saying Briton is safer than Holland for cycling why do the people of this country give office to such ill informed fools.£10 pound a gallon will be the time things change.

Ah yes, obviously Penning is protecting the population from being hurt on our bicycles by encouraging/compelling us all to drive instead, he is saving us from ourselves. Thanks Mike! How thoughtful.

But while we are looking at the stats comparing us to the dutch, how about injury rates for pedestrians and motorists too? Stats on air quality maybe? And have we any comparasons handy showing rates of obesity and diabetes between us and the dutch, for whom the option of active travel has been made pleasant and feasible, something Mike and his chums don't seem interested in doing for us. Or is Mike solely concerned with keeping the motor traffic flowing as quickly as possible for one shrinking segment of society, while impeding freedom of choice for those who would prefer not to contribute to the ever growing congestion on our roads?

Can we get the NHS involved in this debate? What we need is some input from the people who have to deal with the nasty side-effects of our current car-dominated culture, (including but not limited to injuries related to collisions, respiratory illness from air pollution, obesity, diabetes, ...).

I think I should write to my MP, Jeremy Hunt, about this, as I reckon he could soon have lots more time on his hands to attend to constituents' letters!

It is clear that Penning was attempting to misconstrue this comparison, in that he went on to suggest the Dutch should come here to see how it is done, and in doing so it is evident that he must think we are as stupid as he is.

He could have presented the information differently,and it might have carried more weight (except that I htink it is still defeatable on other grounds): if more people cycle, more people will be injured cycling. That is true even if casualties per km decline, because they won't decline faster than kms cycled rises. Of course, fewer people will be injured using the mode of transport they would have used if they didn't cycle - walking has a greater risk, travelling by car a lower one.

He could therefore have said "if you want to travel safely, travel by car" - except of course that travel by bus is safer, by train safer still, by plane safer still. And fewer cyclists/more cars makes for even higher cycle casualties per km, negating part of the advantage.

And every arm of government piously says that cycling is good for us - our own health and fitness, conservation of scarce resource, reduction in harmful pollution, less pressure on the health servce and longer lives - and hen does stuff all practically about it.

I can't believe that a politician would ever manipulate statistics in order to make his own department look good.

I get so frustrated when people harp on about needing more cycling facilities like cycle lanes! It's just not true! I've cycled in France and Spain and they don't have these facilities yet not once did I encounter poor driving with respect to dealing with cyclists. What we need is tougher punishments for drivers involved in cycling accidents and education. Saying the sun was in your eyes is not good enough and should in fact be further reason to punish for dangerous drivers as they didn't alter their speed to suit the conditions. Also, teach learners why when there's a traffic island you shouldn't try and over take, why you need to give them at least three foot of room when you do pass and why in a lot of the cases there isn't any reason to over take at all! Why over take if the cyclist is going to pass you at the next set of lights! It doesn't need to be expensive but by saying it is it means the government can be lazy about implementing changes.

Halfwit, which is the polite version of what I really think.

In a social chat with a local council leader, I invited him to come for a bike ride... the answer? Too dangerous!

They just have no idea about real life, cycling and statistics ... but they are politicians so do we expect any less?

Car drivers then can kill with impunity in Holland as well?

I live in the Netherlands and study in the UK, and I was extremely surprised by this article. Cycling in Holland is far better thought out than in the UK - we have proper cycle lanes which are clearly marked and often set back from roads entirely. The cycle lanes are the first things to be gritted in icy weather, and are maintained to an extremely high standard. I have lived in the Netherlands for my whole life and have never had anything even close to an accident in the 15 years I have been cycling - bear in mind I go over 100 kilometres a week just getting around and shopping and things! In the five years I have been studying in the UK, I have already been sideswiped by two cars at junctions, been verbally abused by drivers and had several close calls with motor vehicles - and this is in a relatively quiet Southern town!
I am frankly disgusted by the manipulation of these statistics to cover up what is an extremely serious lack of provision for cyclists. If the government really wishes to encourage a cycling society, perhaps they should actually visit my home country to see how it is done!

You expect any different from a Tory government?

nicely put Dan

The good thing is that Penning and Baker were shown up to everyone, including the Transport select committee that they are completely clueless when it comes to cycling.

I would expect the Transport committee to take action to ensure that this changes. I suggest that we remind them of their duty to do so.

Why not send an email (transcom [at] parliament.uk) to them expressing your views on the current lack of understanding for cycling.