Phil Liggett says Lance Armstrong's accusers were motivated by jealousy

Gkam84 wrote:

To be fair, ONE comment does make sense.

They did get value for money, whether he doped or not. They paid him to come to an new race, really unknown, most pro's weren't interested.

Now look at it, first race of the season, lots of the top guys there including the world champion.....

But other than that, Liggett should be strung up

World Tour points mean that the top riders turn up and actually race, nothing more. It'd be a training ride otherwise.

pwake wrote:

And it's not just his former supporters; he's still driving a lot of traffic to this site and Paul Kimmage has made a career off the back of LA. Speaking of Kimmage, I remember him as the next big thing in Irish cycling after Kelly & Roche and after finishing sixth (I think) in the World Amateur RR Champs and I can understand his bitterness/disillusionment with the sport; he really was a bright star in the making. But he knows, for sure, that to make a name for yourself you go for the big names. He did it with LA; now it looks like he's out of material there, he's started on Wiggo.

pwake what a complete and utter load of drivel. You are obviously very bitter that your idol has been snuffed out and kicked out of sport. Maybe also you are bitter because in the end, Kimmage, Walsh etc have actually proved to be better at their jobs than Lance was at his? Is that what you're grinding your axe about?? Kimmage and Walsh and Ballester arr high quality, extremely competent journalists whose work extends far beyond their investigations of Lance Armstrong.

theclaw wrote:

pwake wrote:

And it's not just his former supporters; he's still driving a lot of traffic to this site and Paul Kimmage has made a career off the back of LA. Speaking of Kimmage, I remember him as the next big thing in Irish cycling after Kelly & Roche and after finishing sixth (I think) in the World Amateur RR Champs and I can understand his bitterness/disillusionment with the sport; he really was a bright star in the making. But he knows, for sure, that to make a name for yourself you go for the big names. He did it with LA; now it looks like he's out of material there, he's started on Wiggo.

pwake what a complete and utter load of drivel. You are obviously very bitter that your idol has been snuffed out and kicked out of sport. Maybe also you are bitter because in the end, Kimmage, Walsh etc have actually proved to be better at their jobs than Lance was at his? Is that what you're grinding your axe about?? Kimmage and Walsh and Ballester arr high quality, extremely competent journalists whose work extends far beyond their investigations of Lance Armstrong.

There's no doubt that Kimmage wrote about and stood up to Armstrong in press conferences eg Tour of Cali in 09 when very few others apart from Walsh, would do so. But just to be correct: he didnt do any investigative journalism unlike Walsh and Ballester. He based his articles on his unerring believe that Armstrong was cheating (bolstered of course by Walsh and co's investigative findings and the results e.g. LA Confidential).

Kimmage is not, nor has he ever been, an investigative journalist.

No doubt this is going to unleash a tirade from you for seeming to bismirch him but this is the case.

Sam1 wrote:

theclaw wrote:

pwake wrote:

And it's not just his former supporters; he's still driving a lot of traffic to this site and Paul Kimmage has made a career off the back of LA. Speaking of Kimmage, I remember him as the next big thing in Irish cycling after Kelly & Roche and after finishing sixth (I think) in the World Amateur RR Champs and I can understand his bitterness/disillusionment with the sport; he really was a bright star in the making. But he knows, for sure, that to make a name for yourself you go for the big names. He did it with LA; now it looks like he's out of material there, he's started on Wiggo.

pwake what a complete and utter load of drivel. You are obviously very bitter that your idol has been snuffed out and kicked out of sport. Maybe also you are bitter because in the end, Kimmage, Walsh etc have actually proved to be better at their jobs than Lance was at his? Is that what you're grinding your axe about?? Kimmage and Walsh and Ballester arr high quality, extremely competent journalists whose work extends far beyond their investigations of Lance Armstrong.

There's no doubt that Kimmage wrote about and stood up to Armstrong in press conferences eg Tour of Cali in 09 when very few others apart from Walsh, would do so. But just to be correct: he didnt do any investigative journalism unlike Walsh and Ballester. He based his articles on his unerring believe that Armstrong was cheating (bolstered of course by Walsh and co's investigative findings and the results e.g. LA Confidential).

Kimmage is not, nor has he ever been, an investigative journalist.

No doubt this is going to unleash a tirade from you for seeming to bismirch him but this is the case.

Sam1 no this is not going to unleash a tirade of any type - to the best of my knowledge, you appear to be correct when you state that Walsh/Ballester did more investigative journalism whilst Kimmage stood up and joined some of the dots that these investigations threw up. It doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the very few to publicly stand up to Lance, nor does it take away from the comment that he is a high quality journalist who also writes excellent pieces away from cycling. He never needed Lance to survive, period. And he doesn't need Wiggo to survive either - he will carry on doing high quality journalism for quite a while, me thinks. And no, I don't think you are seeking to bismirch him.

Sam1 no this is not going to unleash a tirade of any type - to the best of my knowledge, you appear to be correct when you state that Walsh/Ballester did more investigative journalism whilst Kimmage stood up and joined some of the dots that these investigations threw up. It doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the very few to publicly stand up to Lance, nor does it take away from the comment that he is a high quality journalist who also writes excellent pieces away from cycling. He never needed Lance to survive, period. And he doesn't need Wiggo to survive either - he will carry on doing high quality journalism for quite a while, me thinks. And no, I don't think you are seeking to bismirch him.[/quote]

I have my own concerns about Kimmage's approach, but he is a very good writer. Have you read 'Engage' yet?

theclaw wrote:

Sam1 wrote:

theclaw wrote:

pwake wrote:

And it's not just his former supporters; he's still driving a lot of traffic to this site and Paul Kimmage has made a career off the back of LA. Speaking of Kimmage, I remember him as the next big thing in Irish cycling after Kelly & Roche and after finishing sixth (I think) in the World Amateur RR Champs and I can understand his bitterness/disillusionment with the sport; he really was a bright star in the making. But he knows, for sure, that to make a name for yourself you go for the big names. He did it with LA; now it looks like he's out of material there, he's started on Wiggo.

pwake what a complete and utter load of drivel. You are obviously very bitter that your idol has been snuffed out and kicked out of sport. Maybe also you are bitter because in the end, Kimmage, Walsh etc have actually proved to be better at their jobs than Lance was at his? Is that what you're grinding your axe about?? Kimmage and Walsh and Ballester arr high quality, extremely competent journalists whose work extends far beyond their investigations of Lance Armstrong.

There's no doubt that Kimmage wrote about and stood up to Armstrong in press conferences eg Tour of Cali in 09 when very few others apart from Walsh, would do so. But just to be correct: he didnt do any investigative journalism unlike Walsh and Ballester. He based his articles on his unerring believe that Armstrong was cheating (bolstered of course by Walsh and co's investigative findings and the results e.g. LA Confidential).

Kimmage is not, nor has he ever been, an investigative journalist.

No doubt this is going to unleash a tirade from you for seeming to bismirch him but this is the case.

Sam1 no this is not going to unleash a tirade of any type - to the best of my knowledge, you appear to be correct when you state that Walsh/Ballester did more investigative journalism whilst Kimmage stood up and joined some of the dots that these investigations threw up. It doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the very few to publicly stand up to Lance, nor does it take away from the comment that he is a high quality journalist who also writes excellent pieces away from cycling. He never needed Lance to survive, period. And he doesn't need Wiggo to survive either - he will carry on doing high quality journalism for quite a while, me thinks. And no, I don't think you are seeking to bismirch him.

Apart from the fact that he stood up to LA, I've no time for any of Kimmages work away from cycling. He's never once had the ball$ to question another sportsman about drugs, despite interviewing numerous rugby players, track & field etc. Zero investigative work, and zero credibility when it comes to his other work. Walsh actually started questioning drug use in other sports before focusing on cycling, probably because it was the best story.

Standing up to LA took huge cahoonas. That is a gold medal there that Kimmage deserves and along with a few others. The rest did nothing but suck up to Armstrong. Not bad to have in your career CV that you called out Armstrong in 1999

http://www.independent.ie/sport/reserving-the-right-to-applaud-403806.html

Kimmage also called out Michelle Smith, Ireland's 1st gold medal winner, for doping. Not a popular move to make. He got ridiculed for it too in Ireland. But ultimately was proven right again.

So he has called it in cycling and swimming. Not bad.

As for Ligget.

The sooner he is gone from the sport the better.

I'd rather the cycling community ignore him and not report anything he says.

theclaw wrote:

pwake wrote:

And it's not just his former supporters; he's still driving a lot of traffic to this site and Paul Kimmage has made a career off the back of LA. Speaking of Kimmage, I remember him as the next big thing in Irish cycling after Kelly & Roche and after finishing sixth (I think) in the World Amateur RR Champs and I can understand his bitterness/disillusionment with the sport; he really was a bright star in the making. But he knows, for sure, that to make a name for yourself you go for the big names. He did it with LA; now it looks like he's out of material there, he's started on Wiggo.

pwake what a complete and utter load of drivel. You are obviously very bitter that your idol has been snuffed out and kicked out of sport. Maybe also you are bitter because in the end, Kimmage, Walsh etc have actually proved to be better at their jobs than Lance was at his? Is that what you're grinding your axe about?? Kimmage and Walsh and Ballester arr high quality, extremely competent journalists whose work extends far beyond their investigations of Lance Armstrong.

Not bitter. No axe to grind. Drivel? Well, I just thought I was being logical in thinking that lots of people did well out of Lance's years; detractors and supporters alike.
Like I said, I remember Kimmage as a rider and can understand, to some extent, his disillusionment, but as other comments have stated, his work has been opinion with no original investigative content. I'm not saying it's a good thing for cycling to still have Liggett around and I have to ask; Do you think it's a good thing for cycling to have Kimmage around?
He wrote a bloody good book in 'Rough Ride' but doesn't really seem to have been able to move on in a way. Some seem to canonize him in a similar manner to those who canonized Lance; just hope he isn't going up that faulted path of believing his own media persona; it never ends well...

ubercurmudgeon wrote:

Those two have zero credibility as commentators now. The sooner they retire the better.

Cannot be said too loud or too often. Clueless and embarrassing.

ubercurmudgeon wrote:

Those two have zero credibility as commentators now.

time for Rendell and Boulting...

Get Eurosport, the coverage is far superior. Sean Kelly has an knowledeg of racing and the peleton these guys can only dream of. P.s i don;t work for eurosport