Surrey councillor calls for regulation of sportive events around Box Hill

I guess its just down to whether people are decent to each other whatever they are doing and appreciate another's point of view. Waving cyclists into danger is outrageous. I go on our little lane very rarely and keep to the bridleways as it should be safer -horses have a brain to consider which cars and bikes don't and can jump around at a paper bag even or something different or out of place on their usual route, strange as it may seem - bet your bike doesn't do that, ha ha. horses aren't allowed on the footpaths either, and its against the law to ride a horse on the narrow grass verges unless there is a right of way which there rarely is around houses so you can tell them to get off (may be worth googling a copy of the countryside code - everyclick.co.uk is a charity based search engine), but agree there are some crazy riders out there too and they worry the rest of us too. They walk along on their mobiles oblivious and probably drive the same way and would ride a bike in the same way.
I think the police are just trying to keep the peace for everyone to enjoy the countryside. The councillor was on the right track there so shouldn't be castigated completely. it may have sounded pompous but he was almost certainly reacting to a lot of flack from his constituents as the Sportives have been a real issue for riders locally as they go on tracks rather than roads. There are kids at our yard and its coming up to school holidays where they want to be out on their ponies all the time, and some parents are truly worried that they will be ok.

spot the mistake, it costs me £1k per month to keep my horse is bedding and feed with a roof over his head.

Hi,I think you may not have read my second notes above as I will address your points. I did say that the chap was lucky to have such nice cyclists around him.

Agree with you 100% on people not being aggressive whatever they are doing. Sadly we have seen a lot of aggression towards us by cyclists in our area around Box Hill and Bookham / Polesden Lacey - the cars drive by us and do as we ask if we ask them to slow a bit, with no problem. We have to go on the one track twisty lane overhung with trees so its a bit dark in places, and have done for many years taking and bringing horses to and from the field and one small part of a hack out, before it became an Olympic cyclists paradise. I was walking my horse in hand back home as I dismounted, hearing from a bike scrambler that there was another race on - some five mins up a lane and a cyclist came right up to us and stared me in the eye quite literally - he was on my shoulder pedalling slowly with a big grin on his face when I turned around. I asked him in a normal way "why didn't you say you were there" and he laughed and pedalled of. He wanted an argument but I wouldn't give him one. We have had numerous problems like this and that's why Surrey Police patrol our lane. They don't do that for no reason as it would be wasting much needed police resources.
The 37 mph by thousands of cyclists was on a bridleway and knocked my horse and I flying by jumping in front of us (?why as I nearly ended up in hospital and that's whats started this issue with me, it shook me that anyone could so such a thing and not care). they are called bridleways, no getting round it although its open to walkers and cyclists going at a slow pace. its not a race track, so we both agree there.
Absolutely agree there are some stupid motorists around too, I wouldn't dispute that in any way.
How can saying that something looks to be inevitable unless the good cyclists stamp on these bad ones who spoil your good name be antagonistic. Its what's needed as they wont take any notice of drivers walkers or riders. I saw a guy in London tell another guy to get off his phone when he was cycling along on a Boris bike.
I do pay a huge amount - it costs me about £1k per annum to keep my horse. I commute every day and only have the weekends to enjoy my hobby. I don't compete, I am what is euphemistically called a happy hacker these days, and would like to remain so.
Registration would be up to theh government but usually starts when one reaches adulthood, whether that's classed as 16, 18 or 21 I don't know. All I do know is that its not usually the young ones who are the problem, there are a lot of things like lycra louts and MAMILS is one I heard from a Ride London Drop in last week - middle aged men in lycra. Sadly all my experiences do seem to be with this age group whether driving, riding or walking and they are very aggressive in London. I don't know how old you are but would you agree with this? its certainly something UK Cycling and British Cycling should address. I'm not anti cycling, I am enjoying the Tour de France and my fave is Cav as I like his attitude. He seems to be very inclusive when he is interviewed. I cant imagine he would be riding up to people and staring them down. I have helped at the TOB last summer at the Guildford stage where a lot of cycling volunteers didn't bother to turn up after having said they would. More fool them as we had a great day and were able to walked around the team cars and watched Cav be interviewed. I had a great little vid of it.

where was it edited - footnote. its as I wrote it?!
tku

I am sorry that you feel that way. Its very patronising to say "oh dear you were doing so well ......" when someone says something you may not agree with. It is true about the roads. I pay my local taxes too and pay for the roads on top. it has been hell on wheels quite literally until the police stepped in in our area and the cyclists are a lot nicer than they used to be - am guessing a few were fined, as they were VERY confrontational. You were lucky to have the nice ones. I think taxation etc is contentious but may well come as I say. The bad ones break the law and ride off with no way of identifying them and that's the issue and the good cyclists will be left to pick up the pieces and pay for them - unless you guys get together to stop them. I have always taken the stance with everyone that people should be able to share tracks and roads and not assume they have a right of way or ride past at a rate of knots - actually horses have the right of way if you read the highway code but I don't want this to be an argument. it wasn't what was intended at all. I hope you can see now why non cyclists as I used to cycle and have a bike at my stables but don't use it any more - due to a foot injury - but which allows me to ride albeit slowly - want some form of registration brought is - isn't that what they do in Holland? I don't know for sure but maybe you do.

Actually, except for the bit about "crawling alongside juggernauts" (whatever that means - why crawl when I can ride?), everything in the second half of junemcd's rant can have "Cyclists" replaced with "Horseriders" and "cycle tracks" replaced with "bridleways" and be exactly what you read elsewhere. It's not true about most of either group and it shouldn't be true about the taxing: we already pay for tracks, bridleways and roads through general taxation and they're open to everyone and so they should be!

I’ve been following all the comments and felt as a local person i should respond to some misconceptions.

Firstly, as someone said, not everyone has a huge house and drives a mercedes its probably 70/30 in favour of small properties or flats.

There are a large number of council properties here also.

Leatherhead, where a lot of the cycling is targetted since the Olympics, on the road, is a tiny town with very narrow passing places and people are penned in if they are closed off.

We already have huge yellow warning signs up all over the place for 4th August. Please come and have a look, it looks hideous, like some kind of dictatorship has taken over. A lot of the abuse from cyclists is targetted towards horseriders too of which I am one.

We are shouted to get off the roads which we don’t want to be on but sometimes we have to as roads cut through our bridleways, and when we are on our bridleways, sportives run us off of them.

I almost ended up in hospital due to a mass cycle ride piling past Polesden Pacey near Box Hill as there was no forewarning and no signage apart from tiny pink arrows which appeared that morning.

We were suddenly taken by surprise and hit by an onslaught of brightly clad bike riders racing sometimes at 37 mph (also noted on a utube blog). If you dare or care, please read Horse and Hound 4th July edition where there is a two page article. Horses have died and people have ended up in hospital from being thrown by terrified horses that would not bat an eyelid at much else. It IS dangerous for bikes to come speeding past or up behind horses.

We would like people to call out, slow down, let us know they are there etc somehow.

We are taught that you never trot or canter past walkers or other people on your path, to slow down and walk as it can cause distress.

We should all realise that our actions do cause distress to some people and just take a step back.

I am sure there are a few out there who will give me a lot of flack, but deep down you know what I am saying is true.

Cyclists in Surrey have and still do go straight over lights, straight over roundabouts when someone else has right of way, it is heart stopping and happens all the time.

They have their heads down and see nothing, presumably in their own world seeing themselves as Cav or Bradley Wiggins or is it Chris Froome now, on top level professional rides where the roads are closed off for a short while.

This is not so.

You must observe the highway code. People are dying because they don’t.

Dont crawl alongside juggernauts, I wouldn’t when driving and certainly not when riding, we are too vulnerable.

I see so many scary manoevres just sitting on the bus in London. You are so pushing your luck and your life. The attitude of such a large nunber of cyclists will surely see you all regulated, insured and taxed if it continues as it is.

If you want parity on the road, and for the tax payers to fund cycle lanes etc, you have to pay for it I’m afraid.

It’s cloud cuckoo land to think that any of us gets anything for nothing - as the saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[Edited by admin to make it readable. Paragraphs and punctuation are good mmmkay.]

I bet the National Trust are not complaining. The shop at the top is busy all day, every day, and probably makes a fortune on its tea and cakes - I does out of me

Now I live in the Surrey Hills area and drive a car and ride a bike. There are an awful lot of bikes out there but most are sensible and considerate to all other road users on Box Hill and all the other hills.

I would agree that clubs and events need coordination and remember that the busy roads in Surrey are not training grounds

As for the poor abused car drivers - have a care for those very much more exposed than you and you will find them less agressive if thats your problem. Better still get a life and get a bike and you will see the world differently

A lot of residents of Box Hill are retired and living in Park Homes. They are not super rich and do not all drive Mercedes. Park Homes are effectively mobile homes and often it's the only place that they can afford. My in laws live in a park home, and did consider buying one of the ones at Box Hill.

However, the people complaining are in the minority. I've never had a problem with the locals, and when I stopped on the way back home one day with cramp, I was offered a cup of tea whilst I recovered.

Not sure what the big attraction to Box Hill is anyway, if it hadn't been in the Olympics it'd just be another local hill. Nice, but nothing outstanding. It's not a hard climb. York Hill is a much harder test and probably a lot quieter.

Having done a sportive up Box Hill, I doubt it's actually the cyclist there are the problem, more the cause of the problem.

All it takes is one slow rider pottling up the hill at 8mph to bring the area to a grind. Drivers forcing their way passed on the wrong side whilst motorbikes zip in and out of gaps that possibly weren't there to start with. Coupled with the hot weather, fuses get short, tempers flare and KABOOM! Locals have to wait forever to get in and out of their properties as everyone attempts to go as fast as possible. Ultimately not able to go as fast as before, perceived or otherwise. Anyway sportives tend to run on weekends....

Role on next year when le Tour comes to Yorkshire, bet you anything those at Box Hill don't complain about the congestion around the route.

A little patience would go a long way, however in this day and age a little patience is all people have.

Hmm. I have mixed feelings about sportives. As a club rider (and ride leader) I know we're careful about maximum numbers in a group and keeping groups apart. Sportive riders don't always have club discipline (to be polite). The story about the horse being put down that was published earlier in the week is an example.

I find it ridiculous that when organising a time trial that will obstruct precisely nobody, I need to put in a police permission form but sportive organisers can send thousands of riders along an inappropriate route (Cycling Weekly going up Pebble Hill to avoid the Box Hill Tax for instance) without informing anyone.

Recording times an publishing a list of finishers in time order makes a sportive a de-facto race but yet they're subject to none of the regulations.

Share the roads and play nice. And if you want to race, there are plenty of races and TTs.

We do need to be wary, though. Surrey CC changed the road layout to stop the large number of motor cyclists enjoying themselves. Admittedly, they did tend to enjoy themselves rather too quickly! But, the point is that Surrey CC aren't averse to taking it out on a minority community...

It's quite interesting to hear someone from the South East of England where it almost impossible to escape the noise, pollution, congestion and conflict of the motorised traffic on the ground and ever present landing and taking off jets in the sky complaining about 'the sheer number of cyclists' spoiling the environment. I suppose psychologists might point to a kind of displaced agression; a person taking out his hostility on something less threatening to that which is actually making him angry. This is quite possibly the root cause of a lot of hostilty to cyclists on the road, and domestic violence in the home. It's a big problem in modern society. Cllr Preedy needs to see someone about his anger.

Every weekday, morning and evening, the roads around Dorking are chock-a-block with cars. The rush hour, which involves 1000's of cars, every weekday, is acceptable. a few weekends a year a few hundred cyclists rock up to take part in a sportive and that's unacceptable. Most weekends a few hundred weekend warriors rock up in lycra or on phat tyres, and I may be one, and the locals go nuts because they can't hussle their wankpanzers down the lanes fast enough. Bonkers.

Box Hill?

There's so much more to Surrey than that - literally making a mountain out of mole hill...

When large groups of cyclists use the road, in groups, it is tricky to navigate around them in a vehicle.

I can well imagine if I lived around Box hill, I would get wound up by multiple events taking place every weekend, plus we all know that a minority of cyclists ride in sportives somewhat dangerously and inconsiderately

Events, particularly in congested areas should be coordinated centrally, for safety purposes if nothing else.

if some organisers are doing it without the requisite permissions, they should be banned from doing so in future.

On a related note, I passed some kind of time trial event taking place on a busy road on Saturday afternoon last weekend -groups of riders milling around the start, the finish line appeared to be at the entrance to a busy garden centre. What a completely inappropriate choice of location and scheduling.

It seems not every event organiser has the common sense required to organise safe events.

This all sounds familiar...
http://road.cc/content/news/48040-police-patrols-deployed-box-hill-frict...

It isn't obvious when driving a car with groups of cyclists in front how to safely overtake. It isn't practical to stay behind forever - is that what you'd want anyway ? I'm super careful in a car around bicycles but have to say that when trying to overtake groups it's pretty difficult to know how to do it safely - it can often mean pulling into a smallish space between groups, which I don't like to do. Those of you who drive and have found themselves on the road with groups of bikes should speak up because I'm sure you'll admit how difficult it can be to be it right.