Breaking news: Passenger dies of injuries after bus performs emergency stop to avoid cyclist

My deepest sympathies to the gentlemans family.

No amount of casting of blame here, there and everywhere will bring this gentleman back.

Coaches and mini buses require seat belts. Public transport vehicles such as your typical omnibus which is hop on hop off are not required to offer belts. Neither are trains or tube trains. Ignorance all round it seems today. If the police are going to be willfully stupid we could at least not compound things by doing the same?

PC Deborah Gray apears to be very badly briefed and probably a bit credulous. I'm not quite sure why somone with such a low rank in Essex Police is allowed to embarass the force by displaying a canteen culture attitude to road safety and vulnerable road users.

Is the fact that this so called spokesperson is only a PC and indication the fact that she is young and inexperienced. or experienced but not very bright. It's hard to tell. Maybe she's been set up. Ordered to make stupid comments to limit her career or perhaps she is the ultimate careerist prepared to spout any kind of moronic nonsense in return for a leg up the greasy pole.

I don't live in Essex but those of you that do should make a not of her name and that quote and be prepared to remind Essex Police and her of that statement whenever it is necessary.

It may be road collisions or it may the type of victim blaming that goes with sexual assault. Change the vulnerable group and you pretty much have a caricature of a Police officer reminding women not to go to certain places, to wear only certain types of clothes and to be more safety conscious because Essex Police can't be bothered to do their jobs properly.

"I know we are paid to protect you and uphold the law but that sounds like too much hard work basically you are on your own so look after yourselves while we have a nice cup of tea."

Sincerely
Latest junior PC with no common sense.
Essex Police

How is this not as bad as racism and sexism?

The anti-cyclist slant that the legal system is coming out with here is absolutely disgusting.

If a car driver doesn't look properly, pulls out of a junction and hits a cyclist, they aren't ever charged with anything more than careless driving.

Sympathies to the family and friends and a black mark for the reputation of cyclists. My guess is that the perpetrator was some bloke who ocassionally rode a bike rather than a cycling enthusiast (cyclist).

"Ah ok, thanks.

It could have been one of the metal poles that contributed to his sad death, seats like you say.

Considering some drivers don't even go to jail for killing a rider, let alone charged with inv manslaughter / murder i think inv manslaughter is way over the top."

struggling a bit as this probably a tough time for those directly involved but do agree that when you look at the speed that very serious charges have been brought against cyclist who possibly should have known better and then you compare this to the typically weaker charges brought against drivers who would have known better but have killed cyclists then its does make you question or continue to question if the Police and CPS are consistently acting in the best interests of the more vulnerable road users

edit removed cyclist age as not sure where got that from

Ah ok, thanks.

It could have been one of the metal poles that contributed to his sad death, seats like you say.

Considering some drivers don't even go to jail for killing a rider, let alone charged with inv manslaughter / murder i think inv manslaughter is way over the top.

"why was the man standing? (assuming he was), not enough seats provided etc."

may have been earlier version of this story but his son responded on this point that despite his similar concerns his dad had actually been seated near the front of the bus but was sadly thrown forward when the bus braked

think their are issues here with the design of the seating

very sad news - hope i'm out and about on a bus when i'm 90 - think that such an unexpected death is very hard to deal with and my sympathy to the family

as a car driver I've had people on bikes drop into the road in front of me and in a car that can be hard to deal with it and you've got more room for moving, though some locations you learn to expect it and try to look out for it.
Anecdotal = A couple of years ago a neighbours mother (he's retired so not sure but aged) experienced a fall on a bus and cut head open - taken to hospital by ambulance and discharged self and then got lost trying to find right bus home!
A teenager forcing a bus to emergency stop shouldn't ruin two lives - you can only design so much into a vehicle but bus passengers need to be able to walk away from an emergency stop

Seat belts can be fitted to longer distance coaches, but they are not fitted (or required) on the "No 17" local stopping bus. It may be that the old gentleman was standing at the time, and that is allowed on buses too. Plenty of uninformed and plain wrong statements here, why not just wait and see what evidence is presented?

In terms of seriousness of offence involuntary manslaughter isn't wildly different to death by dangerous driving. Maximum sentence is life but that's rarely enforced and certainly wouldn't be in this case. Max for dangerous driving is 14 years though to my knowledge it's never been used. Whatever happens it'll likely not buck the trend of people on bikes being sentenced more harshly than people in cars for doing what amounts to the same thing. My thoughts are with Chris and his family.

They are called seat belts, the bus company is libel for passenger safety, not the bike rider even if he is an idiot.

Yes penalize him for his stupidity breaking the road rules and toss the book at him. Its not manslaughter.

Emergency stops should not kill passengers no matter the cause. Make the bus safe and it wont happen.

People stop shifting blame it wont bring the poor man back, a simple seat belt and he would be here today.

Here's the sandwich murderer mentioned above http://road.cc/content/news/90037-driver-who-killed-oxford-cyclist-found...

Condolences to the bereaved. Disappointed that the bus company still hasn't been charged for its dangerous vehicle that kills on emergency stops.

Spen- your right conjectures not good but leaving it to the courts presumes they, the cps and police will act fairly and there's repeated evidence that doesn't happen.

Quote:

Was this person an actual cyclist or was it just some idiot riding a bike! To me there is a big difference between the two,

There is no difference. Wear as much dayglo and lycra as you like or jeans and a T and no lid. No difference. People on bikes are cyclists like people in cars are drivers. In many UK cities you may be treated better on a bike wearing civvies (ime) - the Copenhagen effect.

The rider won't be charged with murder as suggested as there's no intent to kill, but the bus video must show him doing something stupid for them to charge him as they have done.
Spen, well said.

It's easy for a regular reader of these pages to feel a sense of injustice at the report that a charge of involuntary manslaughter may be brought. No doubt every one of us has the thought that if a car driver makes a maneuver that results in the death of a cyclist the charge would be careless driving at worst. However it's been pointed out several times that we don't know what happened or why the bus driver had to make an emergency stop. Until these facts come to light, presumably through a trial, it would be better if we, as a cycling "community", refrained from indulging in knee jerk defence of cyclists and acting as if this charge were a charge against every one of us.

The courts will decide if there is guilt and in the meantime our sympathies and thoughts should go to the family of the deceased

Sympathy to the the family of the gentleman who has passed away.

This does seem like a strange story with a rather tenuous link between cyclist and outcome in comparison to the rather clearer cut incidents happening elsewhere.

In other news a driver doing 60 mph eating a sandwich hits a cyclist who has lights on his bike( but the court feels the need to report he didn't have reflectors on his pedals) kills him and its considered just a moment of carelessness, an accident that happens and victim must accept some blame.

We're here even if this person on a bike being an idiot just like the driver above, the secondary or the third action in the sequence of events he caused results in calls for manslaughter charges.

Seems strange but not surprising

RIp the old boy. .

The crucial thing here is that the police state that they have evidence. We should also note that the more serious charge has not yet been brought.

If the evidence supports this charge, fine. He can be tried by a jury who will be properly directed.

And, if convicted, I look forward to every road and pavement user being similarly charged when there is evidence to do so.

There's something that unnerves me about the whole case.

While I sympathise with the family of the man who has sadly passed away, I can't help but wonder what the charges would be if a different set of circumstances had caused the same emergency stop?

Suppose a child ran out into the road:
Parent charged with not holding onto a 3-year old properly?
Youth charged with not having proper control of a football and allowing it to roll into the road then running after it?

Or even a situation like a stray dog where no owner could be traced?

Whether it's a "proper cyclist" or a "chav on a bike" it just seems that they're being made a bit of a scapegoat here and also that the charges are far more severe than any driver would face having actually run someone down.

Was this person an actual cyclist or was it just some idiot riding a bike! To me there is a big difference between the two, unfortunately we all seem to get branded as the same. When i am at the traffic lights i cant believe how many chavs on mountain bikes i see ignoring red lights. But they are still classed as a cyclist. It makes us all look bad. Condolences to the family of the gentleman.

Dreadful. RIP

But unfortunately until the dicks of the world are taught the lesson that 'I was only having a larf' is no excuse, collateral damage will continue. I hope he is made an example of. I also hope such an example is made of dickhead drivers too.

There always has to be someone to blame and someone has to be fault.
It is how our legal system operates.
There can no longer be an unfortunate set of circumstances where fallible and fragile human beings find themselves in a situation that is out of their control.
Somebody must always pay.

I am still a little concerned by what the cyclist did that caused the Bus to do an emergency stop? I see plenty of "chavs" on bikes all the time, jumping off pavements, riding straight out in front of traffic, etc.

They may be idiots, and i may think they should be locked up for dangerous cycling, and banned from ever getting a car licence (although for many would make no difference!)

Surely the bus driver is not innocent in that he failed to see the cyclist?

I guess all will become clear later.

Sad news indeed, thoughts go out to the family.

Although the cyclist seems to be the one at fault, did the bus have seat belts? They are required by law and you are required to wear them by law now...That will be the case for the cyclist, cut and shut case, gets off with leaving the scene of an ACCIDENT....

As tragic as this may be, why on earth is 'involuntary manslaughter' never used in the caseof the numerous 'careless driving' cases that get reported, if it's applicable here ?