Third cyclist killed on London Cycle Superhighway, tipper lorry involved

Wolfshade wrote:

First of all our thoughts have to be with the friends and families of those involved.
Before we trail the driver of the truck my media. Let us first consider the old adage that we are innocent until proven guilty.
The reports suggest that the collision happened when the lorry pulled off following the road, i.e. not turning, so it is a different circumstance to the bow round-a-bout concerns.
We do not know who was at fault here. There are differing scenarios which would proportion blame to either driver, cyclist, tfl. Who knows.
One thing I would point out is that why does it always seem to involve tippers :(.
And another incident on the cycle super highway. The whole point of which was to make cyclists feel more safe, yet another one has needlessly perished. If nothing else it would suggest that the CS is ill concieved and certainly I would be more concerned about using it.

At last some common sense,,,,i will answer the question re why is it often tippers,,,it is not alway
AT THE MOMENT IN CENTRAL LONDON THERE IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST EVER CONSTRUCTION PROJECT GOING ON ...A GOV,T CONTRACT THAT REQUIRES TIPPER TRUCKS TO BE AVAILABLE 24 HRS A DAY,,,,NORMALLY MOST TIPPERS ARE PARKED UP AND FINISHED BY 4.30 PM AND NOT INVOLVED IN THE EVENING RUSH.
TIPPERS AT THE MOMENT FAR EXCEED ANY OTHER TYPE OF TRUCK WORKING IN CENTRAL LONDON,,MOST OTHERS GET DELIVERIES DONE EARLY MORNING,,OR ARE ON SMALLER VEHICLES FROM OUTER LONDON HUBS JUST BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF RESTRICTIONS ON PARKING AND LOADING...THESE INCIDENTS INVOLVE MORE TIPPERS THAN OTHER VEHICLES SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OF THEM ON THE ROAD THAN ANY OTHER HGV.NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE DANGEROUS AND MOST ARE NOW FITTED WITH VERY EXPENSIVE CAMERAS AND SENSORS...THEY ARE ONLY A DANGER TO THOSE ON CYCLES WHO PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION OF DANGER...NO AMOUNT OF MIRRORS,CAMERAS,SENSORS,,,OR LICENSING CAN CATER FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO PUT THEIRSELF WITH IN INCHES OF A LARGE HEAVY VEHICLE,,,OR ANY VEHICLE FOR THAT MATTER......CYCLISTS NEED TO GET REAL.

Fuck off you pathetic trolling cunt.

Bikebikebike wrote:

Fuck off you pathetic trolling cunt.

To Truckingcyclist.

trucking cyclist wrote:

Right,,it,s time some home truths were told here

I very, very, much doubt that we will get any truth from you.

trucking cyclist wrote:

,,,I am 52 years old and hold a full license to drive every type of vehicle on the road from a motorcycle to an artic and including buses,,and i am a cyclist..

So you are of a decent age and can be trained to drive technically demanding vehicles but cant work a keyboard properly? I'm having further doubts here sunbeam.

trucking cyclist wrote:

I drove a fully safety equipped tipper around central london a few for a couple of weeks a few months ago

I doubt this happened.

trucking cyclist wrote:

i have to say ta lot of cyclists have no respect for their own lives

What a pile of complete tosh.

trucking cyclist wrote:

...i had one man about the age of the chap killed on the mile end road,,come into my blindspot,i was alerted by sensors,lean on my cab,despite there being a green box in front and DESPITE THE VEHICLE SHOUTING AT HIM REPEATEDLY THAT THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT..WHEN I GOT OUT AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING HE TOOK OFF THROUGH THE RED LIGHT WITHOUT LOOKING.

Really? So he was able to reach all the way up to the cab of a tipper truck? Must have been a big tall fella hey? Well done to you though for being able to see exactly what he was doing the whole time he was in a position where you claim you would be completely unable to see him, you know, in your blind spot.

Kudos too for being able to monitor if said cyclist had checked if the route was clear in the whole time it took you to climb out of a tipper truck, down the steps, round the front of the vehicle to where the cyclist was.

Come to think of it, what were you doing jumping out of your truck? I mean if the sensors were going off for long enough for you to get worked up and then make the decision to get out of the vehicle, then you would have had to come out of gear, check the brakes were on, turn the engine off, remove the keys, check the traffic for any other vehicles, traffic or pedestrians coming past, climb down the steps on to the road, round the vehicle and across to the cyclist. And the lights were still on red at this point? Alternatively, you've just jumped out of the cab, leaving several tonnes of highly hazardous machinery with its engine running. If either situation turned out to be true then it doesn't look good for you really does it?

trucking cyclist wrote:

Another man of the of a similar age on a BORIS BIKE decided that i should not be in the very wide bus lane at whitechapel despite me being there legally and moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.

I don't know the bus lane in question so I can't say if you are correct in saying you could legally be there, strikes me as odd that a tipper truck can drive in a bus lane at any time remotely near a peak time though, but regardless, this cyclist has ridden, made eye contact and presumably still felt that you would try to over take in a manner that would put him in danger so rode in the safest position in the road? He rode in a manner that actually made him safer? The crazy lunatic! This anecdote, again if it were true, would only serve to point out that you aren't very good at understanding roads or other road users.

trucking cyclist wrote:

these two are only a few of the stories i can tell of lunatic cyclists in Central London who seem to think they have rights over all other traffic and no respect for their own safety.

Actually, these stories have shown that it is you that thinks you have absolute right on the roads and that cyclists put themselves in safer positions.

trucking cyclist wrote:

I am sure it is often this type of cyclist that is involved in these terrible tragedies and i personally know truck drivers who have been cleared of any fault in a cyclist death,who lives have been destroyed by having to live with the trauma of these events despite being cleared of all responsibility. those of you that post these ban lorries and slag off lorry drivers in your posts are probably just these sort of people.

To paraphrase the old lager advert, "Troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll"

trucking cyclist wrote:

Remember as a cyclist you are using the road with no license registration or insurance and those of you who cycle in the road when there are perfectly safe cycle lanes available to you that have cost us the paying road user millions of pounds are a menace to society.

HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR OTHER ROAD USERS,,THE COUNCILS THAT HAVE SUPPLIED SAFE CYCLING ENVIROMENTS,,,AND MOST OFF ALL YOUR OWN LIVES.
WHY ANYONE FEELS THE NEED TO CYCLE ALONG THE HIGHWAY FROM THE LIMEHOUSE LINK TO TOWER HILL I HAVE NO IDEA,,,THERE IS A PERFECTLY SAFE FREE FROM LORRIES CYCLE LANE THE FULL LENGTH OF CABLE STREET...YOU DO IT BECAUSE YOU CAN,,,SOME OF YOU NEED TO GET REAL QUICKLY OR THIS WILL KEEP HAPPENING.IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE DRIVERS AT FAULT....USE THE FACILITIES AVAILABLE TO YOU AND STAY AWAY FROM TRUCKS....THEY ARE ONLY DANGEROUS IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

It's at this point you've lost it, you might as well have two pencils up your nose and be shouting "wibble".

trucking cyclist wrote:

.i had one man about the age of the chap killed on the mile end road,,come into my blindspot,

See, this is the problem with large motorized vehicles: they have massive blindspots. Really, as we're speaking some home truths here, said vehicles should only be driven in a hyper-cautious manner. If not, then we end up with accidents.

trucking cyclist wrote:

i was alerted by sensors,lean on my cab,despite there being a green box in front and DESPITE THE VEHICLE SHOUTING AT HIM REPEATEDLY THAT THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT..WHEN I GOT OUT AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING HE TOOK OFF THROUGH THE RED LIGHT WITHOUT LOOKING.

So you knew there was a cyclist there. He knew you knew, you knew he knew, it was a red-light... what's the problem? Apart from you screaming at him like a nutter?

trucking cyclist wrote:

Another man of the of a similar age on a BORIS BIKE decided that i should not be in the very wide bus lane at whitechapel despite me being there legally and moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.

Which can be rephrased as "Another man of 52 years of age on a TIPPER LORRY decided that a cyclist should not be in the center of a magic bus lane which is wide enough for a TIPPER LORRY to pass a bicycle with a car's width. Despite the cyclist being there legally."

Quote:

STAY AWAY FROM TRUCKS....THEY ARE ONLY DANGEROUS IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

See, there's another problem... some of the people driving the trucks KEEP PUTTING OTHER ROAD USERS IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

trucking cyclist wrote:

menace to society.

You mean like this Truck driver?: http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01614/PETER_SUTCLIFFE_1614684...

trucking cyclist wrote:

Remember as a cyclist you are using the road with no license registration or insurance and those of you who cycle in the road when there are perfectly safe cycle lanes available to you that have cost us the paying road user millions of pounds are a menace to society.

I have insurance twice, (1) for work and (2) thrown in free with a membership to LCC.

Everybody in the UK who pays any tax is paying for the roads. Are you aware that trucks are subsidised by the taxpayer who are paying for the damage the heavy vehicles are doing to the roads.

"there are perfectly safe cycle lanes" Where? Are they in car door zones? do they have chevrons or better separating the bikes from the rest of the traffic? Over the last few days I can't help notice the debris from the storm seems to have been swept from everywhere except the cycle lanes.

Here is one example of a cycle lane which makes one fear for their life because ignorant motor vehicle drivers think it's ok to drive right next to it, and it's one of the cycle lanes that's still full of debris: http://goo.gl/maps/ACn2F I think cycling organisations need to start thinking about bringing legal against councils who create such dangerous cycle lanes, I would gladly contribute towards such a legal campaign.

It's just a matter of time before vehicles without good visibility of what is around them are banned, it's absurd that some HGV drivers can't see what is directly in front of their vehicle.

kie7077 wrote:

trucking cyclist wrote:

Remember as a cyclist you are using the road with no license registration or insurance and those of you who cycle in the road when there are perfectly safe cycle lanes available to you that have cost us the paying road user millions of pounds are a menace to society.

I have insurance twice, (1) for work and (2) thrown in free with a membership to LCC.

Everybody in the UK who pays any tax is paying for the roads. Are you aware that trucks are subsidised by the taxpayer who are paying for the damage the heavy vehicles are doing to the roads.

"there are perfectly safe cycle lanes" Where? Are they in car door zones? do they have chevrons or better separating the bikes from the rest of the traffic? Over the last few days I can't help notice the debris from the storm seems to have been swept from everywhere except the cycle lanes.

Here is one example of a cycle lane which makes one fear for their life because ignorant motor vehicle drivers think it's ok to drive right next to it, and it's one of the cycle lanes that's still full of debris: http://goo.gl/maps/ACn2F I think cycling organisations need to start thinking about bringing legal against councils who create such dangerous cycle lanes, I would gladly contribute towards such a legal campaign.

It's just a matter of time before vehicles without good visibility of what is around them are banned, it's absurd that some HGV drivers can't see what is directly in front of their vehicle.

Not sure if having insurance twice is helpful. Wouldn't each insurance company try to palm off the costs to the other?

nod wrote:

Not sure if having insurance twice is helpful. Wouldn't each insurance company try to palm off the costs to the other?

If anything happened during working hours, Work would sort things out via their insurance, out of work hours I'd use the personal insurance.

nod wrote:

No disrespect to the dead and not to absolve the driver of any blame (he has killed someone after all), but with every hgv-roundabout-left-turn fatality I'm increasingly thinking "idiot cyclist".

Seriously, who cycles alongside a hgv these days and isn't warily giving it a wide berth or just backing off and letting the thing go ahead completely?

This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.

The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV's and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL's that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV's blind areas.

There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you're driving?).

If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.

zanf wrote:

nod wrote:

No disrespect to the dead and not to absolve the driver of any blame (he has killed someone after all), but with every hgv-roundabout-left-turn fatality I'm increasingly thinking "idiot cyclist".

Seriously, who cycles alongside a hgv these days and isn't warily giving it a wide berth or just backing off and letting the thing go ahead completely?

This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.

The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV's and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL's that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are shaped EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV's blind areas.

There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you're driving?).

If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.

Ha! I seem to grasp the concepts of vulnerability far better than you it would appear. When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

As for me, I've got a driving licence, no car and the bike is my primary transport. Plenty of us have licences, and more should apply the skills learnt in the car while we're on the bike. Skills like always looking around you. I'm always looking around me for potential killers - HGVs, buses, cars, other cyclists, my little ponies etc, and if necessary I'll take adjust my position to be more visible or get clear.

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

nod wrote:

When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?

Go and look at ASL's and you'll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.

Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a 'head start', it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.

nod wrote:

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.

zanf wrote:

nod wrote:

When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?

Go and look at ASL's and you'll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.

Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a 'head start', it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.

nod wrote:

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.

Is your head just constantly replaying Mad Max? And I know what I said, and I stand by it.

zanf wrote:

nod wrote:

When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?

Go and look at ASL's and you'll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.

Don't know what your problem is or why you come across as so angry, but surely a simple solution is to get out of the gutter and use the middle of the box? That way you're more visible and cars won't zoom passed you.

Maybe the box isn't the best in the world, but what you're describing sounds like user error to me.

Call it facetious if you want. I call it common sense.