Cycle lane outside primary school blocked twice a day by parents parking illegally, but council "dismissive" of cyclists' concerns

That sign's for a mandatory on-carriageway cycle lane. If it was indicating that it was a shared cycle/pedestrian space it would be a round sign with a person on the other side of the line. The bit between that and the other sign you can see a bit further up is being counted as main carriageway, even though, to appearances, it's a parking space continuation of the shared space either side of it.

My bad. Need to brush up on my TSRGD.

At least he neatly parked up by the other car parked on the footway… /sarcasm=off 

The people won't change if you don't change things to accommodate them, but if you change things to accommodate them they may complain you're ruining the things they rely on.

Very difficult.  It's got to be top-down AND bottom up in coordination *.   Driving is so embedded in our systems (and so space- and resource- expensive) a bit of people power can't change it.  Or at least - any revolution needs support from councils and govenment.

But if those in power try to shift things too far too fast ** people may make that impossible and probably kick the leaders out.  e.g. see the Bristol folks simply blocking some (rather small) road changes.

I believe that without really good alternatives (e.g. good quality separate cycle infra where needed, much better public transport) people simply won't change.  But that on its own is not sufficient either - plus of course it almost always requires "taking from the motorist" so again is hard to kickstart.

Presumably something like Chris Boardman's tale of getting the Manchester boroughs to agree that "something needs done" *** then getting groups of local people to propose some (very simple, local) improvements which would help fix things?  Then stitching those together into a "scheme" and putting that up for comment.  But *not* as a "referendum" / this is what we will do.  Then leveraging people's local pride / envy e.g. "their street / area is getting this, why aren't we?"

* Interestingly - that is what it took for the Dutch to change direction in the 1970s.  Yes - they had a lot of people power / protest / direct action (including both the more "riot"-style but also constructive things).  BUT it required getting some leaders on board (especially the minister of transport) who would work together with this.

** That is - almost any change at all...

** But not being prescriptive about what needed done; just that they agreed that they'd run out of money and meet none of their targets by keeping the status quo.  And "more driving" would not solve things at all.

How to make people less selfish and arrogant. Probably will never happen. What we do need are politicians at all levels to make decisions based on facts. Lots of research out there. Decision makers need to understand the subject. Ignore minority that are big mouthed.

Just harness it.  In European countries selfish and arrogant people are demanding better cycling facilities (for their convenience) and probably showing aggro towards people walking in the cycle path.  Plus politicians are accusing each other of not doing enough for cyclists (for their own benefit)...

(TBF in e.g. NL there's broad agreement that active travel must get excellent provision, and there are still some folks who see potential in campaigning on behalf of the motor industry drivers).

But that's exactly when hard-working parents need to drop off / pick up their kids (and/or are commuting)?  Many (most?) of the children come to school by car - shurely you're not suggesting we should make that "impossible" for them?

(Another "can't get there from here" because a few can spoil it for the many, and it essentially requires people to vote to lose their own (short-term) convenience?)

Meanwhile at Kesgrave school...

Yes. Most of those kids should be coming on foot, bicycle or bus. They as much as their parents need to learn car is not the only solution.

chrisonabike wrote:

But that's exactly when hard-working parents need to drop off / pick up their kids (and/or are commuting)?  Many (most?) of the children come to school by car - shurely you're not suggesting we should make that "impossible" for them?

(Another "can't get there from here" because a few can spoil it for the many, and it essentially requires people to vote to lose their own (short-term) convenience?)

Meanwhile at Kesgrave school...

Sort of:

There are at least 7 vehicles there double parked or on the kerb. But imagine what it would be like.

It's far from perfect - no doubt most of us could scrutinise and suggest improvements.  (And as you point out that where it's remotely possible and there's the slightest reason people in the UK will still drive and park in a thoughtless manner).

But ... the fact that it can be done, in the UK, and attracts enough support to persist is something.  And all apparently without questions being asked in parliament about "what about the blind / old people?" and "what about ambulances not getting through?"

Yeah - I know - the "infra" in this place is mostly not new, and pretty low-key - but in other places plans to change far less seem to cause almighty dramas ("impossible" / "you're ruining our lives" etc.)

There's a couple of schools near us that have instituted regular (but not daily) bike buses and they have huge takeup - to the extent that some parents are having to travel away from school to get to the muster point because the kids want to get involved (you might argue that rather defeats the purpose, but at least it shows enthusiasm). It doesn't stop some of the remaining drivers parking inconsiderately, but at least there are fewer of them.   

Awww - did someone get their planning application refused?

Bigtwin wrote:

Want to make Britain better?  P45s to the entirely of Councils.  Ficktards every living one of them.

Thanks.  As someone who does their best, along with many of my fellow councillors, you're wrong, very wrong.  There are some councillors who are there for their own purposes and who love to hear the sound of their own voices, but most of us are just trying to do our best in very difficult circumstances.

If you think you can do better, stand for election.

In my limited experience of dealing with elected councillors (as opposed to councils in the administrative sense, whose failings are often unfairly blamed on local councillors) in London,  about 10% of them are ambitious folks trying to forge a political career, about 10% are interfering busybodies who just like the idea of lording it over their fellow residents and at least 80% are decent people who genuinely want to improve where they live and commit a huge amount of time and energy to doing so without any remuneration beyond expenses. 

Bigtwin wrote:

Want to make Britain better?  P45s to the entirely of Councils.  Ficktards every living one of them.

Such a stuck record.  Huge numbers of people would be less well off, dying, dead were it not for these Councillors and Officer you call "Ficktards". I am sure you have your reasons but as someone who has worked across councils all of his working life these are some of the hardest working and intelligent individuals I know.

Or is it because they're inconsiderate and don't give a toss about the rules when it comes to their own convenience?

Just no thought!

Better effort needed from you next time also.

They Cycle lanes not car parks.inconaiderate? Yep those parents definitely are inconsiderate.

Advanced Driver wrote:

I wonder if parents do this deliberately in order to protect their children from som of the inconsiderate and reckless users of the cycle lane? Just a thought!

Since these parents are the inconsiderate and reckless users of the cycle lane their children obviously need protecting from their own parents. Have you considered phoning social services?

Advanced bollocks.