Weird Mamnick gun ad breaches code; gravel riding still on the up; more accidental Partridge; sock review causes mayhem; distracted drivers; tenuous political references + more on the live blog

Although some people might not cycle into the city because they would have to leave their bike chained up outside, no options to change out of wet or sweaty clothes or to have a shower. I have all those at my work but if I was working elsewhere with no facilities, I'm not sure I would cycle in.

Utrecht? Pretty good case study of the success of bike lock facilities.

/warning: bit of a bragpost this one:

I will be working in Amsterdam centre today. So I will cycle on my vouwfiets (folding bike) from my Sloterdijk office to the center of Amsterdam. The route goes through the Westerpark and is segregated for about 90% of the way. Reminds me I should make a video of the Dam Rak/Beursplein underground cycle parking facility experience, it is just amazing. It is free to park for the first 24 hours (unlike the one featured above in Cardiff), heated and super secure. It has no showering or changing facilities, as most Dutchies are not in shouty -sweaty-race-mode on their commutes, and therefore don't need to change clothes.

They are also currently completing a new truly gigantic facility just in front of the Centraal station ; https://www.mijksenaar.com/park-your-bike-7-meters-under-sea-level-its-a-dutch-thing/ .  It looks like it will be beyond superlative. It is costly to build, and probably why we pay 52% top tax rate here, but I am happy to pay it.

If you are not familiar with https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/ , give it a look as Mark Wagenbuur is really good at showing the best bits of Dutch infra, infra that would make most British cyclists groen with envy. GarageMirage would probably call all this a communist dystopia. He can flikker op.

*Gnashes teeth in futile jealously* (Also @AlsoSomniloquism / wycomewheeler) As you're doubtless aware cycling culture and facilities are coupled. In short - what people say they want in the UK to help them cycling makes sense from where the UK is now. Equally in a true mass-cycling environment those choices look odd, if not pathological.

In the UK the low percentage of journeys made by cycle tend to be made by "cyclists" rather than "people on bikes". These are more likely to be those who would travel farther / actually seek to get sweaty on a bike. The need to share the roads, the general higher urban speed limits (compared with e.g. The Netherlands) and driving culture which emerges (lots of unhappy people so MGIF, perceived need to not be below Minimum Speed Limits etc) also encourages a "race to survive" mode of cycling. Hence concerns about showers.

Some people think it never rains in The Netherlands and the headwinds there in no way compare to the hills here but we'll skip those quibbles!

There may also be (proportionally) less "multi-modal" usage of bikes in the UK e.g. switching between bike and other transport modes. I'm not certain on this point. However the extremely widespread and well integrated OV Fiets system in The Netherlands makes this much more convenient and attractive than any UK option. Cycle parking provision is increasing in the UK but it is both patchy and poor quality.  Compare the main Edinburgh station (not all parking but a good fraction) - with that in a similar sized Dutch city.

Our public transport is much less extensive and frequent than in The Netherlands and stations may not be in a convenient central location either.

So it's common for concerns in the UK to focus on linear journeys more than you might expect in mass cycling countries. So about getting directly from home to work for example. Possibly related to the demographic cycling regularly too.

I suppose it depends how close together they are.

Personally I'm sure I wouldn't use one if I had to walk half a mile from cycle park to office.

Ah - so it's the retro market they should aim (!) for?

https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/guns/

1. If it has been normalised - aren't comments like yours reinforcing it ? I know not to use my phone at all in a journey. Even at lights. 

2. Isn't that why you shouldn't be dicking around with your phone at traffic lights. 

fenix wrote:

1. If it has been normalised - aren't comments like yours reinforcing it ? I know not to use my phone at all in a journey. Even at lights. 

Hey, I wasn't defending it!  More sort of throwing an opinion out to the room...

Yes, yes, but that can be very dangerous here on R.cc! Non-dissenting opinions only allowed.

Any good arguments against what @fenix has said?

marmotte27 wrote:

Any good arguments against what @fenix has said?

FB often piles in when he sees disagreement... With the battle cry that no one's allowed to dissent. I sometimes think he's projecting...

Captain Badger wrote:

FB often piles in when he sees disagreement... With the battle cry that no one's allowed to dissent. I sometimes think he's projecting...

Indeed, similar to certain folks who preen themselves on their self-identified "courtesy" whilst being disgustingly rude to any person or group that dares to disagree with them.

Rendel Harris wrote:

......

Indeed, similar to certain folks who preen themselves on their self-identified "courtesy" whilst being disgustingly rude to any person or group that dares to disagree with them.

Whcih they are bound to, cos the batshit crazy rubbish that they come up with can only have been designed to garner the most disagreement possible.

In fairness to FB, it seems his posts are genuine (even if he dislikes dissent...). I certainly wouldn't bracket him with certain others as a rule.

Captain Badger wrote:

Whcih they are bound to, cos the batshit crazy rubbish that they come up with can only have been designed to garner the most disagreement possible.

In fairness to FB, it seems his posts are genuine (even if he dislikes dissent...). I certainly wouldn't bracket him with certain others as a rule.

I agree there come a point where it moves from a difference of opinion to trolling but I really don't think that happens very often.

Gimpl wrote:

.....

I agree there come a point where it moves from a difference of opinion to trolling but I really don't think that happens very often.

Exactly, I can only think of one example, even if they do post under a number of accounts

Rendel Harris wrote:

Captain Badger wrote:

FB often piles in when he sees disagreement... With the battle cry that no one's allowed to dissent. I sometimes think he's projecting...

Indeed, similar to certain folks who preen themselves on their self-identified "courtesy" whilst being disgustingly rude to any person or group that dares to disagree with them.

Agree 100%

If that's so then in many cases I agree with him. 

See it happen quite often. There's a core of very regular posters on here who most definitely don't like an alternate view when it doesn't chime with 'the majority'. Often they're not the majority but just a very vocal group (The Vocarati ).

Haver seen it happen on lots of boards over the years - I used to frequent Bike Radar years ago but stopped when The Vocarati took over and no-one else was allowed an opinion. 

I very often don't agree with the opinion being offered but I still support their right to make it e.g. Nigel Garage (or whatever he goes by these days).

Don't that always happen though? Groups are generally people with similar-ish views, with a few who are vociferous about defending that. Which is not "welcoming" - if that should be an expectation of any group. There are the odd one or two who appear and put contrary viewpoints - which is certainly not trolling (a subjective judgement anyway). Much better for that and the discussion - if the resident "fighters for truth" can hold themselves back a bit.

However when said points appear to consistently be chosen to elicit emotional reaction, to provoke and outrage and the only "engagement" appears to be to attack the elicited reaction? You can call it "contrarian" but "troll" probably fits well (whether the person genuinely believes in the opinion or not - if the point for them appears to be the reaction).

There's a sliding scale of course from "you smell" to "but you follow the clearly discredited theories of Friedrich Hayek" and people may also have some genuine things to say *, I'm just commenting on what they are mostly doing.

* I guess some of us are largely here for the bad puns and squirrel hunting.

chrisonatrike wrote:

* I guess some of us are largely here for the bad puns and squirrel hunting.

Depends what the squirrels are hunting.

mdavidford wrote:

.....

Depends what the squirrels are hunting.

I'm sure HP can rustle up a meme fusing Matt Damon and a squirrel for our delectation

Captain Badger wrote:

I'm sure HP can rustle up a meme fusing Matt Damon and a squirrel for our delectation

Here you go:

Hang on - I might have mis-read you.

Let's try this one:

hawkinspeter wrote:

.....

Here you go:

Hang on - I might have mis-read you.

Let's try this one:

That is too good!

mdavidford wrote:

chrisonatrike wrote:

* I guess some of us are largely here for the bad puns and squirrel hunting.

Depends what the squirrels are hunting.

More like who

Gimpl wrote:

If that's so then in many cases I agree with him. 

of course. We wouldn't want dissent.... (TBC I 'm joking)

Gimpl wrote:

See it happen quite often. There's a core of very regular posters on here who most definitely don't like an alternate view when it doesn't chime with 'the majority'. Often they're not the majority but just a very vocal group (The Vocarati ).

This maybe a matter of perception. There is a corps of regular posters - most of whom disagree with each other, hence the lively discussion. I'm not sure there is an apparent majority view on any particular thing.

Clearly there are a few common themes around which "sides" coalesce, and perhaps there is a loose correlation around typical political themes - progressive v conservative comes up quite frequently. But it's hardly Westside Story.

The "Vocerati"... Where do I sigup?

Gimpl wrote:

Haver seen it happen on lots of boards over the years - I used to frequent Bike Radar years ago but stopped when The Vocarati took over and no-one else was allowed an opinion. 

It would be interesting to parse out what we mean by not being allowed an opinion. Everyone's free to disagree, and shouldn't opinions be challenged? 

Gimpl wrote:

I very often don't agree with the opinion being offered but I still support their right to make it e.g. Nigel Garage (or whatever he goes by these days).

The old  Voltaire. Yes, of course. And, at the risk of going meta, it is possible to have an opinion on their comments, and motives for making those comments, even if we no longer directly engage with them.

Captain Badger wrote:

Everyone's free to disagree, and shouldn't opinions be challenged?

Oh no they shouldn't ! *disappears in a puff of logic *