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Volunteer speed monitors call out "group of cyclists at 44 mph" in "speed track" 30mph zone (that doesn't apply to cyclists); Reaction to Labour shadow transport secretary's "disappointing" cycling comments; Froome's dodgy bike + more on the live blog

It's Wednesday and a week off work since Dan Alexander did one of these... what could possibly go wrong?...

Wed, Nov 22, 2023 09:27

SUMMARY

Volunteer speed monitors call out "group of cyclists at 44 mph" in "speed track" 30mph zone (that doesn't apply to cyclists)
Local knowledge + your thoughts on the community speed watch group calling out cyclists for high speeds in 30 zone
Cyclists fear heavy fines for drinking from water bottles if "draconian" careless cycling laws are introduced in Queensland
Jonas Vingegaard reveals he has missed anti-doping test on his record, insists "I don't take anything, and I don't think that the rest of the peloton does either"
Cycling UK: "This Autumn Statement was said to benefit business and employees but has done nothing to give those people sustainable transport opportunities, whether they're taking public transport, cycling or walking"
How to increase your cycling motivation in winter — essential tips to keep your spirits up on the bike when the temps drop
Comment of the day
Residents brand walking and cycling path extension an "unforgivable waste of money" – when "the NHS is in need and families are going hungry"
Will Tom Pidcock win The Great British Bake Off?
"I didn't want to be a traitor": Jan Ullrich talks doping and personal suffering ahead of release of documentary into his life
S-no-w cycling today
Not so dodgy bikes
Chris Froome's dodgy bike
Reaction to Labour shadow transport secretary's "disappointing" cycling comments

Volunteer speed monitors call out "group of cyclists at 44 mph" in "speed track" 30mph zone (that doesn't apply to cyclists); Reaction to Labour shadow transport secretary's "disappointing" cycling comments; Froome's dodgy bike + more on the live blog

Ringinglow (Google Maps)

22 November 2023, 09:17

Volunteer speed monitors call out "group of cyclists at 44 mph" in "speed track" 30mph zone (that doesn't apply to cyclists)

Here's a story in the Sheffield local press this week...

A community speed group, made up of Liberal Democrat councillors and volunteers, has spoken out about a notoriously fast "speed track" 30mph road through the village of Ringinglow, which residents have said it is "just a matter of time" until there is a collision on.

The group clocked 190 drivers, 13 of which were speeding, with one doing 60mph, their details to be passed on to the police. However, one member of the Southwest Local Area Committee scheme has also spoken about cyclists riding "well in excess" of the 30mph limit.

"As you'd expect the majority of motorists noticed the hi-vis jackets and dropped their speed accordingly, but we still clocked someone doing 60mph and a group of cyclists at 44 mph," councillor Barbara Masters said. "Its purpose is education not entrapment. It involves training, as you would expect, and volunteers must comply with regulations."

A (yet to be found) "lively discussion on a local Facebook group" ensued, according to The Star, with some pointing out speed limits do not apply to cyclists, while others apparently said riding past the pub at high speeds would be a danger "not least to themselves".

From some Strava segment digging the village appears to come at the base of a long, straight descent, and heading east probably means a fairly hefty tailwind on some days.

We'll try to find the "lively" community group discussion, but shades of this classic...

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

As established there, there are no speed limits for cyclists in the UK — except where local byelaws apply, such as in some parks. The Highway Code sets out speed limits for vehicles, but does not include bicycles, meaning — byelaw-restricted areas such as some promenades, paths or parks aside — cyclists cannot be fined for speeding.

Instead however, cyclists can be charged with dangerous cycling, under the 1988 Road Traffic Act Section 28, which states an offence is committed if "the way they ride falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist" and it "would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous", with "dangerous" referring to "danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property".

The charge of 'wanton and furious cycling' can also be applied if an injury is caused in the case of a collision.

22 November 2023, 10:48

Local knowledge + your thoughts on the community speed watch group calling out cyclists for high speeds in 30 zone

Interesting stuff in the comments section this morning, more than a few of you suggesting points along the lines of just because you can doesn't mean you should...

bob zmyuncle: "Crossroads with limited visibility from both sides. Pub with outside seating. Pub goers and hikers wandering across road. 44mph is just death wish stuff. Like any group of people, the group labelled cyclists contains a percentage of idiots."

AidanR: "I get that it's a fun descent and that technically speed limits don't apply to cyclists, but going through a village at 44mph in a 30mph zone is a dick move."

RobD: "While doing 44 in a 30 zone through a village is stupid, regardless of whether it's legal or not, should it not be more concerning that seven per cent of the drivers were speeding, including one doing twice the speed limit? These are the ones who were still speeding despite likely spotting the high vis wearing volunteers and either hadn't slowed down enough, or didn't bother to.

"The fact that the comment regarding most drivers noticing and dropping their speed seems to be just an accepted thing is also worrying, as if most of the drivers will only drive anywhere near the speed limit when there's a risk of being caught.

But you know, war on motorists etc."

We've got some local knowledge thanks to Colin McC too...

"I use this road regularly although often turning at the offset crossroads beyond the pub in the picture. I think it's significant that cars exceed the speed limit regularly both here and when the limit is 50 on the eastern and western sections (up and down the hill) either side of the 30 section at the crossroads. Vehicles also regularly close pass cyclists (I get a close pass almost every time I use the road.)"

22 November 2023, 16:48

Cyclists fear heavy fines for drinking from water bottles if "draconian" careless cycling laws are introduced in Queensland

> Cyclists fear heavy fines for drinking from water bottles if "draconian" careless cycling laws are introduced in Queensland

22 November 2023, 16:24

Jonas Vingegaard reveals he has missed anti-doping test on his record, insists "I don't take anything, and I don't think that the rest of the peloton does either"

[A.S.O Pauline Ballet]

Tour de France champion Jonas Vingegaard has vowed to "make sure" he never misses an anti-doping test again after revealing that he has a missed test on his record. His excuse? Speaking to Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet, Vingegaard said his phone was in the kitchen when the doping inspectors came, but his doorbell was not working so he missed them.

The leading Grand Tour rider of his generation did not disclose when the missed test occured, but stressed he has been tested in the region of 60 to 70 times this year, another test being undertaken two days after his missed one.

"I had left my mobile phone in the kitchen, and then our doorbell didn't work. They tried to call me, and it was clear that it was impossible to answer," Vingegaard said. "Of course, it's not cool. But then they came two days later. You get tested there, but of course, it's not great to have a missed test hanging over you. It's definitely something I think about afterwards to make sure it doesn't happen again."

[Luis Angel Gomez/ASO]

Avoiding the well-trodden path of the 'I've never tested positive defence', Vingegaard said it's a "good thing to be tested all the time", but that at the same time the negatives "ring hollow because 20 years ago they were tested too".

"Somehow riders can still cheat, so I don't want to just say – as they did in the old days – that I am the rider who is tested the most. I don't test positive. They did something back then, and people will definitely believe that riders will do it again," he said. "I don't take anything, and I don't think that the rest of the peloton does either."

Those comments were of course followed by questions about Michel Hessmann, the Dane's Jumbo-Visma teammate who is facing an anti-doping ban after testing positive for a diuretic this summer.

[Alex Broadway/SWpix.com]

"I don't know how it got into his body," Vingegaard said. "But I think every cyclist's biggest fear is that you get it through some food or something you eat, and that way test positive without your intention has been cheating, but you still get it into your body."

Talking more widely about public suspicion, he added: "I think it is a shame that we are suffering from what happened 20-30 years ago. I don't want to hide it, but because it has happened, I still think it's important to talk about the past. Because if you just sweep it under the carpet, then it's clear that people might still not care if everyone cheats.

"If you talk about it, there's a better chance that you won't cheat, I think. Maybe it's a way to prevent it from happening in the future. I don't take anything, and I don't think that the rest of the peloton does either. Since I can win the Tour de France twice without taking anything, I also believe that everyone else doesn't take anything either."

22 November 2023, 15:14

Cycling UK: "This Autumn Statement was said to benefit business and employees but has done nothing to give those people sustainable transport opportunities, whether they're taking public transport, cycling or walking"

Cycling UK has released a statement from director of external affairs Sarah McMonagle reacting to the Autumn Statement from Chancellor Jeremy Hunt...

The Chancellor claimed he wanted to give people more opportunities, boost the economy and help the workforce. A surefire way of doing that would have been to increase funding for walking and cycling to give people more transport choices, which he failed to do.

Every pound invested in cycling and walking makes our streets safer, more pleasant places and more profitable with a return on investment of nearly six pounds.

This Autumn Statement was said to benefit business and employees but has done nothing to give those people sustainable transport opportunities, whether they're taking public transport, cycling or walking.

The latest statement comes a month and a half since Cycling UK accused the Conservatives of an "ill-fated attempt to win" votes with pro-motoring policies "undermining" active travel success.

22 November 2023, 15:09

How to increase your cycling motivation in winter — essential tips to keep your spirits up on the bike when the temps drop

> How to increase your cycling motivation in winter — essential tips to keep your spirits up on the bike when the temps drop

22 November 2023, 14:17

Comment of the day

22 November 2023, 13:36

Residents brand walking and cycling path extension an "unforgivable waste of money" – when "the NHS is in need and families are going hungry"

> Residents brand walking and cycling path extension an "unforgivable waste of money" – when "the NHS is in need and families are going hungry"

22 November 2023, 12:38

Will Tom Pidcock win The Great British Bake Off?

You know you're a cycling fan when... you can't watch Bake Off without wondering if anyone else has noticed Tom Pidcock's (questionable) doppelgänger storming into the final...

I'll let you try to work who's Pidcock and who's Matty, 28, a PE teacher from Peterborough (and now Bake Off finalist)...

22 November 2023, 12:17

"I didn't want to be a traitor": Jan Ullrich talks doping and personal suffering ahead of release of documentary into his life

The 1997 Tour de France winner Jan Ullrich has spoken to German magazine Stern ahead of the release of a documentary about his life and career, which is called 'Der Gejate' (The Hunted) and will air on Amazon Prime in Germany from November 28.

Addressing many aspects of his troubled post-cycling life, Ullrich explained how the two-year process of the documentary helped his recovery, the 49-year-old struggling with drinking, drug abuse and the law since the breakdown of his marriage.

"The mix of whiskey and cocaine made my heart colder. It brings up all the evil qualities in you. It turns you into a monster in a very short time," he said. "If you no longer have a heart, you are no longer human... I'm hungry for life again. I want to see my children grow up."

Commenting on his doping past, Ullrich said it was all part of a wider attitude that not cheating would be "like going to a gunfight armed only with a knife" and that "if you wanted to keep up, you had to take part".

"In 2006 I wasn't able to talk because I didn't want to be a traitor," he said. "I didn't want to come out with half truths and certainly not with the whole truth. The lawyers told me 'either you go out and tear everything down, or you don't say anything at all'. I decided on the second recommendation at the time. Because tearing everything down would also have meant that I'm dragging a lot of people down with me into the abyss.

"From today's perspective, I should have spoken. It would have been very hard for a brief moment, but after that life would have been easier."

22 November 2023, 12:16

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57 comments

Wardy74 | 1 year ago

5 likes

I'm a little cynical of the speeding group of cyclists claim. I can occasionally hit 44mph with a negative gradient and a tailwind. But I sure as hell won't be doing it in a 'group' through a village, with crossroads and roadside hazards. A well drilled professional or A-group club ride bunch might travel at these speeds together, but these are quite a rare occurrence to coincide with a volunteer speed watch. Sounds like a bit of biased exaggeration if you ask me. Either that or they inadvertently recorded the car MGIFing.

Clem Fandango replied to Wardy74 | 1 year ago

4 likes

And just down the road they were riding 4 abreast at 12 mph, "holding up" traffic for several miles.

stomec replied to Wardy74 | 1 year ago

1 like

Hmm. Just to be clear Ringinglow Road is amazing as you come out of the Peaks. At the end of a long hard day of riding you get an epic straight newly resurfaced road on a steady downhill with no scary gradients.

The only thing to fear is cars pulling out from side roads.

As evidenced here https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics/protesters-set-to-block-road-to-...

So I always slow down approaching the built up section - but I shouldn't have to.

My current setup gets speed wobbles above 42mph but I could easily imagine with a tailwind and a pro chain set you could hit 44 easily. And Legally

brooksby | 1 year ago

4 likes

Op-ed in the Grauniad:

Britain’s addiction to cars is built on a financial house of cards

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/car-cu...

Quote:

The problem manufacturers have is that almost anyone who could possibly want or need a car already has one. How do you incentivise them to buy another one?

One “solution” has been a proliferation of bigger, snazzier and more expensive models, such as SUVs, in the past couple of decades: manufacturers compensated for sclerotic demand by increasing the value of each car sold. But how has that been possible when, in the UK, for example, real-terms average wages have also flatlined in the same period?

As my research has found, manufacturers have worked with international financial institutions to put these expensive vehicles within easy reach of more people. They have done this through a product called the personal contract purchase (PCP) – which now accounts for almost 90% of all new cars purchased by retail consumers.

PCPs replaced an approach called hire purchase (HP), where consumers opting for a car loan would make regular monthly payments until the loan was fully repaid, usually after three or four years. At the end, they would own the car outright. Under PCPs, consumers only pay back around half of the value of the vehicle. The rest of the value is reserved for a “balloon payment” at the end of the contract. The vast majority of consumers don’t make the balloon payment because they can’t afford it or don’t want to incur the expense. Instead, the vast majority instead swap their vehicle for a new one, and a new PCP deal.

So, whereas under HP consumers had an incentive to hang on to their cars once they owned them, PCPs encourage us to return to the new car market much more quickly. In addition, because consumers will only pay for half of the new car value, this means they can be lent more money to finance higher-value purchases. The overall effect of this can be seen in the data. Since 2009, the average amount of money extended to consumers to finance purchases, per purchase, has increased by 67% in real terms.

hawkinspeter replied to brooksby | 1 year ago

3 likes

brooksby wrote:

Op-ed in the Grauniad:

Britain’s addiction to cars is built on a financial house of cards

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/car-culture-car-industry-consumers-debt

It sounds like a financial version of "kick the can down the road" and relies on an expanding market to operate. At some point it all inevitably collapses and as with any financial crisis, the public gets to foot the bill.

Gimpl replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago

1 like

hawkinspeter wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Op-ed in the Grauniad:

Britain’s addiction to cars is built on a financial house of cards

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/car-culture-car-industry-consumers-debt

It sounds like a financial version of "kick the can down the road" and relies on an expanding market to operate. At some point it all inevitably collapses and as with any financial crisis, the public gets to foot the bill.

Wouldn't we have seen that already though? PCP's have been around for at least 25 years.

Hirsute replied to Gimpl | 1 year ago

2 likes

I think it's the scale, change in manufacturer model to push risk to the consumer. Then there is now car 'poverty' where people are finding themselves locked in to details but unable to get out.

Secret_squirrel replied to Hirsute | 1 year ago

0 likes

Hirsute wrote:

I think it's the scale, change in manufacturer model to push risk to the consumer. Then there is now car 'poverty' where people are finding themselves locked in to details but unable to get out.

I think that there is a mistake in assuming that the biggest risk is passed onto the consumer. Its the finance houses and car manufacturers with "arms length" financing arms who are going to be f*cked when the house of cards comes crashing down.

brooksby replied to Secret_squirrel | 1 year ago

2 likes

Secret_squirrel wrote:

Hirsute wrote:

I think it's the scale, change in manufacturer model to push risk to the consumer. Then there is now car 'poverty' where people are finding themselves locked in to details but unable to get out.

I think that there is a mistake in assuming that the biggest risk is passed onto the consumer. Its the finance houses and car manufacturers with "arms length" financing arms who are going to be f*cked when the house of cards comes crashing down.

It will affect the consumer if the effect of collapsing finance houses and car manufacturers with "arms length" financing arms is to start bringing down the banks...

chrisonabike replied to brooksby | 1 year ago

4 likes

brooksby wrote:

It will affect the consumer if the effect of collapsing finance houses and car manufacturers with "arms length" financing arms is to start bringing down the banks...

"Too big to fail" and ultimately the taxpayer ending up picking up the bill AND extra for clearing up the mess, you mean?

brooksby replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago

3 likes

chrisonatrike wrote:

brooksby wrote:

It will affect the consumer if the effect of collapsing finance houses and car manufacturers with "arms length" financing arms is to start bringing down the banks...

"Too big to fail" and ultimately the taxpayer ending up picking up the bill AND extra for clearing up the mess, you mean?

That's the chap!

hawkinspeter replied to Gimpl | 1 year ago

0 likes

Gimpl wrote:

Wouldn't we have seen that already though? PCP's have been around for at least 25 years.

Depends on how long the market can keep expanding i.e. how much money people are prepared to spend on cars as status symbols. Presumably the big media push for car-shaped EVs is playing into this and providing another reason for people to keep buying cars.

chrisonabike replied to brooksby | 1 year ago

0 likes

A further version of it would be the infra. Not sure about the UK but that is apparently the case in the US. This is the major thesis of the founder of the US Strongtowns movement.

(Here's a version of that as relayed via notjustbikes).

Steve K | 1 year ago

2 likes

I don't think I've ever reached 44mph on my bike.

Edit - actually, a quick check on my first Ride London on strava and I did reach 47.7mph.

JMcL_Ireland | 1 year ago

0 likes

Hah, Froome finished drawing his bike right beside where I used to work many, many moons ago as a fresh faced video game writer

mitsky | 1 year ago

12 likes

I'm not condoning anyone who cycles dangerously and puts others at risk.

If someone chooses to cycle at that speed and risk their own safety, that is up to them.

My own questions:

Q1: How often do we hear about cyclists doing anything like this?
Answer: exceptionaly few times.

Q2: If a group of politicians and volunteers were to do the same (speed monitoring, let alone looking for RLJing etc) anywhere else in the country... at how many of those places would they find a significant number of drivers doing something dangerous/illegal?
Answer: almost all of them.

The fact that this has made the news is because of it's rarity.

Rendel Harris | 1 year ago

12 likes

What Israel Premier-Tech thought they were getting versus what they actually got…

chrisonabike replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago

7 likes

Well someone had stitched him up with a stem that was a centimetre out and smuggled disc brakes on to the bike - it was the best he could do...

quiff replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago

9 likes

This is an actual illustration of Chris's current bike fit.

Muddy Ford | 1 year ago

10 likes

For a cyclist to equal the killing force of an average car travelling at 44mph, the cyclist would need to be travelling at 440mph. Even if the cyclist fell out of a plane they would not create as much energy as the car. Having said that, riding through a village, past a pub forecourt and a junction at 44mph is a bit moronic IMO because if you had to stop in hurry you are very likely to leave a nasty stain in your shorts if not a bloody mess in the road.

hawkinspeter replied to Muddy Ford | 1 year ago

1 like

Muddy Ford wrote:

For a cyclist to equal the killing force of an average car travelling at 44mph, the cyclist would need to be travelling at 440mph. Even if the cyclist fell out of a plane they would not create as much energy as the car. Having said that, riding through a village, past a pub forecourt and a junction at 44mph is a bit moronic IMO because if you had to stop in hurry you are very likely to leave a nasty stain in your shorts if not a bloody mess in the road.

It's reasonable to expect that the cyclists are well aware that any mistake will cause them a lot of pain (and expensive repairs), so I'd guess that there's clear sight lines and that the danger is being exaggerated. When cycling fast (or so I've been told), you usually get decent warning if a pedestrian starts to cross the road as you can move to the center of the road to avoid them or have enough warning to slow down enough. However, that does rely on not having lots of traffic around, but then if there's lots of traffic then pedestrians aren't going to be just stepping into the road (well, maybe once).

MagsL replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago

1 like

There aren't clear sight lines on this bit of road. There's a crossroads where it's impossible to see what's coming down as you pull out. Cars routinely speed here and it's nasty for all road users.

hawkinspeter replied to MagsL | 1 year ago

1 like

MagsL wrote:

There aren't clear sight lines on this bit of road. There's a crossroads where it's impossible to see what's coming down as you pull out. Cars routinely speed here and it's nasty for all road users.

Okay, that does sound reckless by the cyclists then.

Backladder replied to MagsL | 1 year ago

1 like

MagsL wrote:

There aren't clear sight lines on this bit of road. There's a crossroads where it's impossible to see what's coming down as you pull out. Cars routinely speed here and it's nasty for all road users.

As usual it is only impossible to see if you don't look!

Rendel Harris replied to Muddy Ford | 1 year ago

8 likes

Muddy Ford wrote:

For a cyclist to equal the killing force of an average car travelling at 44mph, the cyclist would need to be travelling at 440mph. Even if the cyclist fell out of a plane they would not create as much energy as the car.

Doesn't make a lot of odds to the child that's run out into the road though, does it? It's pretty much one will kill you, the other will really, really kill you.

Secret_squirrel replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago

3 likes

Rendel Harris wrote:

Doesn't make a lot of odds to the child that's run out into the road though, does it? It's pretty much one will kill you, the other will really, really kill you.

The difference being you dont often encounter bikes travelling at 44mph let alone 440mph

mattw | 1 year ago

3 likes

If those hoons want speed limits to be changed to apply to people riding cycles, that's the way to go about it...

hawkinspeter replied to mattw | 1 year ago

13 likes

mattw wrote:

If those hoons want speed limits to be changed to apply to people riding cycles, that's the way to go about it...

How about we apply the speed limits to the drivers first?

jaymack replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago

7 likes

... and enforce them.

Biggie Smells | 1 year ago

1 like

Only Strava Wankers would do 44 through a 30.

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