Listening to music on headphones slows cyclists’ and drivers’ reaction times by 4 seconds, says Ford

And no cyclist, ever, anywhere has griped about zombie pedestrians isolated from the world around them by a huge set of cans?

no, cyclists complain when zombie pedestrians isolated from the world step off the pavement without looking, putting them in to a direct collision path, pedestrians just need to use their eyes, I certainly couldnt give a xxxx what they are listening to.

Agreed. If only there were some way of giving them some sort of effective audible warning of the cyclist's presence from a reasonable distance.

So one the one hand a peer-reviewed scientific study, and on the other someone who's unlikely to have read the study saying "Rubish!" Let me consider who to believe.

Humans have five senses, sight and hearing are the two which are predominantly useful when travelling outdoors (assuming you can't smell or taste an approaching articulated truck due to your highly honed senses which you've cultivated through years of high-volume ear-bud usage and wearing of category 4 sunglasses in overcast conditions), it stands to reason that compromising one of these must cause a deterioration in awareness.  Whether this deterioration is measurable or significant is another matter, but it will be present in the same way that daydreaming, talking, or playing air-guitar will compromise your ability to undertake any task at hand (including driving and cycling).

There was an interesting experiment I saw years ago with pedestrians in a shopping centre being interviewed.  They were asked to count backwards from 100 in steps of seven whilst walking and almost invariably they stopped walking as they were unable do mental arithmetic, talk, and walk at the same time.  

Anything which distracts you in a dangerous situation should be avoided where possible, it's basic health and safety practice.  Unfortunately people's comforts and rights usurp common sense outside of the work environment. 

Smiffi wrote:

So one the one hand a peer-reviewed scientific study, and on the other someone who's unlikely to have read the study saying "Rubish!" Let me consider who to believe.

Humans have five senses, sight and hearing are the two which are predominantly useful when travelling outdoors (assuming you can't smell or taste an approaching articulated truck due to your highly honed senses which you've cultivated through years of high-volume ear-bud usage and wearing of category 4 sunglasses in overcast conditions), it stands to reason that compromising one of these must cause a deterioration in awareness.  Whether this deterioration is measurable or significant is another matter, but it will be present in the same way that daydreaming, talking, or playing air-guitar will compromise your ability to undertake any task at hand (including driving and cycling).

There was an interesting experiment I saw years ago with pedestrians in a shopping centre being interviewed.  They were asked to count backwards from 100 in steps of seven whilst walking and almost invariably they stopped walking as they were unable do mental arithmetic, talk, and walk at the same time.  

Anything which distracts you in a dangerous situation should be avoided where possible, it's basic health and safety practice.  Unfortunately people's comforts and rights usurp common sense outside of the work environment. 

You seem to be arguing two different points. One about impairing one of the senses and the other about distractions. I suspect the second may be more important (compare with the use of mobile phones - handheld are banned, because it is assumed it's the use of a hand that's the problem, but the evidence is that hands free are just as bad, because concentrating on something else is the real problem).

I'm also not clear from the article that the Ford study is peer reviewed (though I assume the Dutch one from 2018 was).

Anyway, I'm going to stick with my open ear headphones for now.

Steve K wrote:

Smiffi wrote:

You seem to be arguing two different points. One about impairing one of the senses and the other about distractions. I suspect the second may be more important

You're right, I'd not even considered distinguishing between being distracted (i.e. not responding to the hazard) and not being able to hear a hazard.  I guess the outcome could be similar, but they are different.

sean1 wrote:

<p>Whilst Ford distracts everyone by blaming cyclists for "safety" concerns....</p>

<p>They patent a system to put adverts onto a vehicles dashboard infotainment system.....</p>

<p>https://gizmodo.com/get-ready-for-in-car-ads-1846888390</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

Ford - The EA of the automotive industry.

I tried the app. Essentially they give the scenario, ask you to pick out the certain type of vehicle, run the scnenario with "music playing" and then run one without (vehicle comes from a different direction). First of all they should be randomising the music playing instead of it being first all the time (at least in my scenarios that was the case). I have familiarity of the roads and layout and key, what I can do with the app as initially I didn't know I could look all around me. They also seemed to hide the vehicles you are looking out for when the "music is playing". The earliest you can see the ambulance in scenario one is 4 seconds in. Second Scenario it is right behind you if you turn around. And they repeat that down the line. So not only harder to hear but just generally harder to see so sound is not the only issue within the "study". 

High winds and helmets do not help hearing. I have a small mirror now to check.

Also useful for anticipating a close pass.

A lot of cars mute or dial down the radio so you can hear the parking sensors - maybe some do it even if they're an option and not fitted. I doubt very much it's a safety feature for those outside the cage as manufacturers generally DGAF

Why would they bother muting the radio to help you hear non-existant parking sensors? My own experience is that it is easier to concentrate when the radio is off, and I just found myself reaching automatically for the off button when reversing. It had nothing to do do with making it easier to hear other sounds, it just makes it easier to focus on the manoeuvre. So it made perfect sense to me when I discovered car manufacturers doing the same.

This study seems to be about headphones masking other sounds, rather than what I experienced which was just the distraction caused by the noise of the radio.

I believe using headphones whilst driving (and cycling) is illegal in France. This includes mobile handsfree kits relying on an earbud.

It would be interesting to know whether it is the more immersive experience which counts against headphones. But then even over speakers, some people turn the volume up so high that it comes to the same thing.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

So does that mean Ford will remove all media playing devices from their cars now?

I expect so. I guess they'll be recalling older models to have in-car entertainment systems removed too?!

What we need to know is how long they've known about this? If they've been selling cars that they know to be dangerous, then I'm sure there's some compensation due...!!

I was about to say the same.... their cars come with speakers that are rated anywhere between 10-30w and some people really like to blast their music when they are driving. By Ford's way of thinking. Does that mean they will be removing speakers from their cars or replacing their current 10-30w speakers with 1-2w versions?? 

I absolutely refuse to believe  anyone suggesting wearing head phones does not impair awareness. it is irrelevant what the distractions are. Such suggestions always come from those who use them and seem to have developed super powers.

I've always ridden with headphones, it's a way to catch up on my podcasts whilst riding.
 

Not once do I think it's impaired my senses. I must have the super powers you speak of.