Triathlete urges drivers to "think twice" after shocking dashcam footage shows moment bike was catapulted into the air from collision

We'd have to debate that in the other one but here I don't see what more could be done.

You would end up stopping at every mini roundabout if you thought every driver would drive round it the wrong way. Then you would either get rear-ended by a driver who didn't expect you to stop or be cut up and punished passed by the drivers behind you who did stop.

nicmason wrote:

also thanks for the advice . I do appreciate it. (not being sarcastic) but part of a vigorous chat column has to be debate and difference otherwise its just a lot of people nodding over their beer .

TBH the most interesting comment was that cycling organisations cut themselves off from Rospa becuase they felt Rospa where victim blaming.

I'm happy to agree on that. Doubt there is an internet without some people gnashing their teeth or taking exception. No-one's going to agree exactly about how much effort you put into challenging a (dangerous) system vs. how much you try to mitigate the effects of that.  I'd say we all put some effort into mitigation because at least you can do something quickly and if bad things then don't happen you feel your action was effective.

If there's genuinely someone cycling around not caring about cars, they're probably high. Or a child of course...

Thanks, I missed the comment about cycling organisations canning ROSPA but that is interesting, I'll dig that one out.

nicmason wrote:

its not the whole picture though is it .

I agree. The other part of the picture is that the driver could have planned in advance for there being other road users and even ones who might have been more vulnerable.

nicmason wrote:

and much as you may hate it cyclists can help themselves more by being more in tune with whats happening all around them.

Logically this must be true and I wouldn't want to confuse you a shitposter so I'll only nibble.  Me as an example - I'm not an adrenaline junkie and I'm keen to continue living.  Like most people though I think I'm better than I am at stuff - cycling, driving, being amusing. So obviously I think I'm taking due care when cycling.  I'm not inside a metal box, my bike doesn't have door pillars, I don't have a phone or entertainment system plugged in (I like the wind...), almost never going flat out.  I even passed a driving test once. So how do you propose I become more in tune with the environment? Would you suggest I redo my cycling proficiency? More mirrors (I ride with one)? Laser rangefinders?  Pre-visualisation and meditation before my ride? (Actually stuff writing to you I think I've a business plan).

You could stop being such an angry little man . Thanks for calling me a shitposter. Do you find that helps you ?

Look, Nic has admitted on this thread that he drives the wrong way around mini islands even though he knows he is wrong. So lets just leave any moans and just know that whatever he posts now or in the future we know he is a dangerous driver who only backs other drivers at the detriment of cyclists because at some point, he will be the one who knocks some vulnerable road user down 

Good advice, it's time to move on!

The car driver was at fault.

But how could she be nic, she approaches mini roundabouts the same way you admitted you do? Oh yes, that is illegally. 

Expect the unexpected! I think I've found footage of our Nic educating road users about road safety by driving the wrong way down the M5.

https://www.facebook.com/143233165824638/posts/2179635278851073/

By on the roundabout you mean driving around the roundabout the wrong way.
And if you watch the video and bother to look at the various images posted, you will see the cyclist was already on the roundabout using it in the correct manner.

No doubt you will stick with your absurd opinion and repeat your usual group think mantra.

Yep, I'm so glad we have Nic "not a troll honest" Mason and Boo "Maybe it was the road legal bike to blame" Garrage that shows us why we need random voices otherwise we would just assume it is incorrect for drivers to go round the wrong way on a traffic island. Bloody cyclists following the rules of the RAC. 

Here I am on my bike. I'm approaching a two roundabouts close together. I can

a. back off and cycle prudently through this hazard.

b. no problem go for it everyone will do what they should do. Bang.

FWIW even in my car I would have been slowed down there and anticipating .  

Here you are totally ignoring the vehicle being on the totally wrong side of the central island markings so you can blame the cyclist and ignore the driver driving dangerously. And then quotes RAC and HC rules as if the driver was driving correctly. 

So trolling. 

If you ever end up claiming personal injury after a road accident you'll find that "no fault" is not very common.

FWIW the cyclist looked like he was going wrong side of the island as well.

Wrong side of the island is wrong but I know several islands i and everyone else goes round the wrong side of because of where they are positioned.

That was addressed earlier on page 1

"Yes, you are seeing it the wrong way. The cyclist approaches the roundabout as he should - he even appears to indicate his intention with his right hand - and if he moves further to the right just after that it's perhaps as a perfectly reasonable reaction to the realisation he is about to be run over by the driver of the white car to his left. (The dark car behind the cyclist follows his line through the roundabout.)"

I also commented I thought  he was too far across initially until shown the layout of the road (although added the collision came as his only avoiding action was to move across her and hope she would brake which she didn't). If he had been mostre to the left, yes it might not have happened as it did, or she might have seen him approaching, assumed he was turning left and then gone for it. A bit of dammed if do and dammed if don't. 

Of course we now know PC Nic will intentionally drive the wrong way on a mini roundabout because "others do it". 

"his only avoiding action was to move across her and hope she would brake which she didn't"

if  the driver hasnt seen you then going in front of them in the hope they may suddenly see you isnt a great idea. 

Also he could have braked.

He did brake but as you didn't even notice a blatant illegal manouvre by a car ("we all do that manouvre by me"), you just ignored it. I got knocked off on a roundabout by a car not stopping to give way but decided that overtaking the lorry who did stop was more of a priority. My avoiding action then was to brake and also aim behind him, unfortunately my wheel caught his rear wheel arch and I was thrown to the ground.
I also had a similar situation later where again, a car decided the others were nerds for being stopped to give way and even though she couldn't see through the van, decided it must be clear. That time I turned into the island with her and had just enough space to stop before contact.

So his avoiding action was a slim hope but if he had taken none he also would have hit her right in the side of the car and might have had even more serious injuries coming to a direct stop head first into the door. 

nicmason wrote:

"his only avoiding action was to move across her and hope she would brake which she didn't"

if  the driver hasnt seen you then going in front of them in the hope they may suddenly see you isnt a great idea. 

Also he could have braked.

while deciding to pass behind a pedestrian who hasn't seen you on the assumption that they won't suddenly jump back into your path is also a bad idea.

In that still they cyclist is approaching the roundabout and the motorist is already on the roundabout. Their poor (but far from uncommon) choice of line around is obvious for the cyclist to see.  In the video, the cyclist seems to be negotiating the roundabouts much faster than the motorist - at the point when the motorist would be checking for approaching road users, I doubt the cyclist would even have entered the first roundabout.

The motorist should (must, to use highway code terminology) have driven around the markings, but the only differnces I can see would have made are:

1. The cyclist would then only be visible in the door mirrors.
2. The cyclist would have more time to stop or slow for the motorist already on the roundabout - not that he shows much inclination to stopping or slowing.
3. The point where the cycle and the car collided would have been different.

I don't think you have looked at the other views if you think the cyclist hasn't passed the give way lines
As to 1/2/3 you have made no allowance for the much reduced speed for the motorist by taking the correct legal route.

So happily break the law. Naughty from a copper. 

nicmason wrote:

The white car was on the roundabout before the bike.

This is what the RAC says.

"The approaching traffic usually gives way to traffic already on the roundabout, which always comes from the right."

A bit of prudence would have avoided that accident.

"The white car was on the roundabout before the bike."

Only because the driver was breaking the law by entering the roundabout illegally.

And who gives a flying flamingo what the RAC thinks; it's the law that counts.

But you are right about a bit of prudence avoiding the collision; but why don't you seem to accept that it was the driver who needed to act prudently?  And it wasn't an accident; an accident isn't perfectly foreseeable, and anyone with more than one brain cell could have predicted it, given the illegal, dangerous, and completely callous behaviour of the driver.

nicmason wrote:

The white car was on the roundabout before the bike.

This is what the RAC says.

"The approaching traffic usually gives way to traffic already on the roundabout, which always comes from the right."

A bit of prudence would have avoided that accident.

"which always comes from the right" where was the bike coming from in relation to the car? from the right.

nicmason wrote:

A bit of prudence would have avoided that accident.

You mean if the car driver had the prudence not to drive the wrong way round the roundabout?

no

Boo and his dislike for Triathlon bikes is back even though cyclist was on the wider brake bars at the time and could do nothing about driver cutting the roundabout and essentially driving the wrongway on a one way bit of road. 

Nigel's preference is to find a way, however irrelevant, to push blame on a cyclist.

Nigel Garrage wrote:

... but generally I don't understand why someone would want to ride a bike that is naturally harder to control and stop, just like I wouldn't choose to wear a pair of roller boots to walk in.

Given that he is a triathlete, I imagine he does quite a bit of training on the bike he is actually going to ride in competition. That would seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

Nigel Garrage wrote:

Giant Trinity is a TT bike - driver is completely at fault but would the cyclist have had a different outcome on a normal bike with better control/brakes?  I'm going to find a way of saying the cyclist is to blame anyway.