Near Miss of the Day 869: U-turning motorist veers into cycle lane and almost hits cargo bike rider and seven-year-old daughter

Quote:

Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is—

(a)stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or

(b)in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/99/made

I think the cyclist was in the "times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road" element. Both hands will have been braking during the imminent danger move, but once the vehicle starts to move away the danger hasn't passed - there is still a chance the cyclist could be off balance due to heavy braking. they are alerting other road users that they might move more than expected.

The legislation is not relevant.

OP was not stationary, and it was clearly daylight hours (I assume after 7am since they had attended a carnival)

The swearing and use of horn should not have any influence on judging the action of the motorist. But if it really is of concern I would suggest uploading the video without sound. 

Sadly my point still stands... rather than looking at the standard of driving in isolation, the legality / appropriateness of the horn use will be at best a distraction if not the key focus.

Likewise, while the motorists actions will be, to a degree, subjectively assessed, however the swearing is an objectively measurable offence.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and it frustrates me saying this stuff, but this is what cyclists, vulnerable road users, police, CPS and judges are up against. 

I hear many comments that the police are anti-cyclist, but I believe the reality is closer to the police are anti wasting their time. 

Sorry Jimmy but I totally disagree. You sound more insane than I do in this clip! You can't possibly say how my local police will react. There is this assumption that the police are some robot army that will look at all avenues of prosecution regardless of who is the victim, This simply isn't true in my experience.

1) This 'aint my first rodeo. My local police are always supportive, level-headed and care only about the dangerous driving taking place around vulnerable road users. I'm not looking for any criminal prosecution here. I honked to let them know I was there and swore because I thought we were going to be hit. I had a rather unrealisitc belief that they may stop to see if we were OK too! All perfectly natural reactions that any sane person would deem appropriate in this situation. My local police definitely wouldn't consider an incident like this as "wasting time" They're really hot on road safety. Not sure what world you live in but it's clearly very different to mine.

2) It is undertstood that people react in various ways when they feel their life is in danger. Officers I have dealt with before honestly couldn't give a toss what sound my bell makes, when I used it or how much foul language I used. They are more interested in nabbing the untaxed, dangerous driver. In case you haven't noticed, vulnerable road users are a hot topic for police forces right now.

3) There's only ONE wrong here. If you can't see that then I'm not sure why you're on this cycling forum TBH. 

I really like your bell for pedestrians, horn for cars setup. I have always wondered how cyclists are meant to alert other non-pedestrian road users to our presence, as a tiny ding from a bell is seldom heard. To be fair - often pedestrians don't hear the ding!

As you've said, police forces differ from place to place. I have also had quite good experiences with my local force (although a few frustrating ones too!) wtjs has had a significantly worse experience with their local police force. Some of their footage is quite shocking!

As for the language - totally understand its use. It is a scary thing to experience especially with your young child being put in danger too. You didn't pursue the driver, yelling obscenities, as drivers have done (you can see it in Jeremy Vine's video in another story) - the swearing was entirely in the heat of the moment.

I'm talking from my experience and from the shared experiences of others. And you may only see one wrong here, but from a legal perspective, you can't be effing and jeffing at people in the street, no matter how warranted. 

I sincerely hope the police do take this forward, but if they don't, my comments might provide some insight into why they didn't.

Of course its stupid that your natural reaction to a dangerous situation should be taken into account when reviewing the footage, and likewise the use of your horn. 

But a magistrate / jury will not review the footage in flight / fight mode, they'll review it with a calm head, the calm head likely of a motorist. They won't naturally make the same connection that we, as cyclists, can as to how you must have felt at that moment. 

And this is what I mean by wasting time. The police issue a notice of intended prosecution to the driver, the driver says 'see you in court', and now that footage is going to be viewed by people with no affinity with cyclists (but plenty with motoring and motorists), who will be looking for any reason to poo poo the whole thing. 

So all the police work needed to get to court will potentially be wasted. If the police can see an obvious 'out' for a jury / magistrate, they will naturally be far less inclined to take action.

I do hope I am being overly cynical, and I wish you every success. 

I think you are fortunate to have a sympathic force.

Other forces are hostile - ask wtjs who was threated with prosecution by a sergeant when submitting footage (of course the threat was entirely baseless). Hopefully wtjs will pop up to flesh this out !

The idea of a public order offence mangling things is not unheard of

https://road.cc/content/news/met-police-admit-officer-wrong-over-cyclist...

That legislation (construction and use of road vehicles) doesn't apply to bicycles. There's separate legislation for bicycle construction and use.

I'm pretty sure that none of the laws regarding horn use apply to bicycles.

In any case, the cyclist is entitled to assume that the motorist did not see them, so use of the horn is appropriate. Moreover, there could be little expectation that the motorist, enclosed in their car, would hear anything the cyclist said, at which point no offence is given by anything they said.

You jest, but I have seen fairly numerous cases of cyclists being threatened with public order offenses for shouting/swearing in fright when faced with what is essentially attempted murder at the hands of a driver.

This looks clearly reckless and shows disregard for the safely of the cyclist and the child passenger. Therefore, regardless of any injury or death, I don't think you can call it "attempted murder" as that requires the intention to kill or seriously injure. It's important to call things as they are.

Apologies, thought the hyperbole was fairly obvious with that one.

They were driving without tax in a way which proves beyond any doubt that they are unfit to drive safely. Take their license, crush their car, put them in prison if they are caught driving again. 

We could easily have safe, accessible roads, we just choose not to so we don't inconvenience dangerous drivers. 

ktache wrote:

You are on a bicycle, with child, so you are the one who has to take avoiding action.

Exactly that. Driver could have pulled the same stunt on any of the preceeding road users, but chose not to. They waited until it was a vulnerable road user - 100% deliberate "it'll hurt them more than me" calculation. And car untaxed since 2 June. Crush it!

Would they pass the test with that driving? Absolutely not, so inexperience just doesn't cut it.

Cupov wrote:

Who's on the horn here...surely not the idiot in the car?

Well, you are supposed to use it only to warn of hazards...

Good question, and when did the honking start. You can't tell because of Mr. Powell's screaming in fear and anger. Did she honk before the turn to tell him to GTH out of my way? 

It's the horn on my bike. Bell for pedestrians, horn for cars 😁