How hard is it to be a woman in the cycling industry? Shockjock engineer devotes entire Youtube video to trying to discredit female Cycling Weekly tech editor

yes, seeing as the video was only on youtube for less than a week, i do wonder how many people actually saw the video, I did, and if i remember correctly, hambini said when he progressed the power point to the bit with the H7 M7 (or whatever it was i can't remeber and cant be arsed finding out) ops, better skip that bit incase there are an engineers watching, and it was only on screen for maybe 5 seconds max, the talk around that slide was about hambini saying he doesn't think disley gets aero very well, and calling out disley's -the velodrome is the same as the outside- (paraphrased) comment, hambini's issue with that is that velodrome air is low yaw and not transient it's steady state (more or less) and real world outside a velodrome is turbulant/transient and higher yaw, my personal opinion is that disley will probably make you faster, help you with clothing / helmet selection etc. but the you are X mph faster for same power will be wrong when you get outside of the velodrome, but Hambini and Disley are probably more qualified than me to make those statements and I'd say Hambini is more qualified than Disley.

Brent-Norh-Sea - the story is the unwarranted personal attack that comes hard on the heels of a sexist quip in poor taste.

Cycling Weekly's video may be sketchy, science-wise, but as been pointed out elsewhere no-one in the cycling media has a multi-million pound wind tunnel with swirl-inducing louvres to hand and few, if any, have the level of aerodynamic expertise Hambini has. And if that means that publications like Cycling Weekly do the best they can with the resources they have have - in order to add some sort of context to manufacturer's claims of aero efficiency - then fair enough. What's the alternative? Take a manufacturer's claims at face value. If you're a fan of Hambini, you'll know how little stock he takes in that approach!

If Hambini had indeed treated all the video participants equally, then that would still be shitty, but to invite comments on the sexual anatomy of a woman while everyone else gets garden-variety insults - not the same. If he had said "ignorant muppets the lot of them" then no problem.

But he was wrong, and has doubled down on being wrong with a misguided follow-up. An apology for overstepping the mark, or simply wiping the video, would go a long way towards making him look less a malicious troll and more like the informed specialist his earlier videos showcase.

Your response darts around the issue, Compact Corned Beef. That these "technical writers" lack expertise in aerodynamics means they are essentially incapable of challenging the claims made by manufacturers. I've spotted that a certain other cycling information channel gets academics (you know, actual scientists from that specific discipline!) on their videos to talk about sciences.

Also, Mr Aerocoach's "sexual anatomy" was directly mentioned as being on his head. I find claims that Ms Arthurs Brennan has been treated with some special malice risible; the whole thing comes over as a smokescreen to distract away from the fact that these publications aren't capable of fullfilling the tasks they claim to perform.

The issue of technical expertise - or not - in the press is not the issue here. The article we are commenting under is about an unwarranted personal attack.

And to say that Arthurs-Brennan hasn't been singled out is wrong. Or did I miss the videos dedicated to personally attacking Disley and Bracey?

"Unwarranted personal attack" - Oh no, Hambini made rude remarks about people who are best described as incompetent. By your own admission. If we are being generous. Given that those people are touting themselves as advisors to assist me in spending my funds wisely, I don't think they're exactly unwarranted, either.

Nice way to move try and move the goalposts. Hambini making a video defending himself from dishonest accusations of "sexism" is "singling someone out". Yeah, whatever.

Well, I do think he was sexist, so we're at a bit of an impasse there, aren't we?

And maybe take another look at the title of the video.

I'm sure you do, but then given you've also previously engaged in apologia for gross incompetence during this chat, I'm happy to leave it to readers as to which of us is less trustworthy.

Also, as it looks like you're about to try and fall back on that last ditch position of shouting "It says feminism means equality in the dictionary - ha! Checkmate!". You might want to reconsider, given that many people have had about ten years experience that feminism simply means advocacy and any similarity to equality, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.

Fair enough! Future readers who stumble on this thread can make their own minds up. Looks like we're the only ones left here in any case.

And I'm happy to say I'm a feminist, for what it's worth.

For what it's worth - what is your definition of feminism? And at what point you felt a line was crossed?

Alright, I'll bite - but it's more of a personal take than a definition:

Eliminating harmful bias and behaviour that seeks to pigeonhole both sexes with pre-existing expectations and roles. Ensuring equality of opportunity to men/boys and women/girls from the get-go.

Bit wishy-washy, but there it is. I'd prefer to live in a world where a female engineer wasn't a rarity and a young man doesn't get told he's 'being gay' for wanting be a nurse. My version of feminism means women can be angry without snide comments about 'being on the blob' and where schoolgirls aren't catcalled by grown men. And perhaps most importantly (to me) that young men don't feel so hidebound by the need to *BE A MAN* and all the baggage that entails that suicide is the biggest cause of death for men under 45 in the UK.

Some will argue that's too broad a sweep, and maybe it is, but I'm not sure 'Compact Corned Beef-ism' will ever catch on.

And firstly at the H7/M7 comment - especially asking the viewers to pile in. It may have been tounge-in-cheek but saying essentially 'come on lads, lets banter about this lass's baggy vagina' in a public forum isn't ok. The follow-up video was just silly.

For sure a modern society seeks to promote equal opportunity. But do not confuse  equal opportunity with an equal outcome. Industry should seek to employ the best candidates and not to hire on the basis of balancing a gender distribution.

The rarity of a female engineer isn't sexism. It's genders expressing a natural preference for a profession. 

Science, Engineering and Technology is an industry where it should be constantly scrutinized and challenged. Because only by this process - it develops and improves. There were some very valid questions about that CW helmet test. Unfortunately, they are now over-shadowed.

There are several crude comments spanning over several months under the Hambini Eng channel. Firstly, if we are to live in a equal society - then it shouldn't be the comment targeting a woman which bring matters to attention. 

Well, I think we've a fair way to go before we achieve equal opportunity - but I wouldn't be surprised to see a considerable degree of self-selection (more female nurses for instance) even if it were achieved - but to say there are more x than y because of inherent preference now is premature.

And yes, there are inherent issues with the CW test, but they've been overshadowed, as you say, because Hambini made a mistake and then went on a bit of a rant when challenged.

As for this particular comment being the one that caused issues - well, we don't live in an equal society, so not too surprising. Then again, perhaps this had been brewing for a while because Hambini has been leaning more heavily into shock-jock mode.

Compact Corned Beef wrote:

To say there are more x than y because of inherent preference now is premature.

As for this particular comment being the one that caused issues  - well, we don't live in an equal society

Gender biased professions are inherent gender preferences and / or natural selection.

Claiming mysogony, broadcasting it across social media platforms and calling the police has nothing to do with sexual equality, equal opportunity or equal outcomes and everything to do with seeking approval of  one's own personal justice. 

Exactly - it is the H7/M7 comment that is unacceptable and he should have apologised - the rest is spurious. 

gusstrang wrote:

Exactly - it is the H7/M7 comment that is unacceptable and he should have apologised - the rest is spurious. 

Exactly.

The journalism is irrelevant.

Would those defending Hambini be happy for a picture of the most important woman in their life to be posted on social media and then inviting comments on the size of her vagina?

Thought not.

This is what the furore is about. Nothing else. Just this.

Hambini needs to apologise.

I would agree with you, I would welcome a statment refocussing on the core of the video, saying "sorry than one comment perceived as sexist (and not as funny as I initially tought) deviate attention from the key point:  this journalist is technically totally uber incompetent and now doubled with a person insulting all the people in this country fighting against Covid-19 by playing with the limits of the law (and now faking her Strava profile errasing 1200 km she did since the lock-down started)".

I always  though the difference between humor (good or bad) and bullying was the consistency you treat anyone. Several times he is not funny (or not my humor), others he is, but he is consistent. 

Now regarding the difficulties in doing proper testing, you can't have a questionable expert as aerocoach team, get SwissSide people. you don't need to have NASA infrastructure to have a better protocol than theirs where they change multiple parameters and Please make a proper equipment selection and STOP including marketing punchlines to please the brands sponsoring your magazine (and I understand the dilema). Several disclaimer could have put boundaries to their test "the velodrome is an relatively controlled environment and repeatable, does it mimic 100% real conditions, no but it may give us an idea"... 

Agreed on the disclaimer - that would have been a useful addition (especially since Hambini has been doing a lot to educate and inform cycling enthusiasts on the pitfalls of 'classic' testing). Not sure about the SwissSide guys, I imagine their consulting rates are a tad higher than Aerocoach! That said, I'm certainly no expert, but I'd favour a Hadron over an Aeox... even if the actual difference to me pottering about on box sections would be about 1/3 kmh.

Re. the 'cycling a lot outside' stuff... to me, it doesn't matter. I have the greatest respect for people on the frontlines of care (my wife's dad is just out of hospital, as it happens, barely scraped through Covid) but one or two people pootling about country lanes isn't going to make much, if any, difference. I'm incandescant about people doing 140 mph in London, or having house parties, mind.

If you know the test you are going to do is going to be so crap as to be pointless in 'adding context to the manufacturers' claims' then perhaps you shouldn't.  Perhaps you should ask the manufacturers to prove their claims.

He's certainly an arse, and he swears and does the 'shock-jock' thing more than I like, and to be honest I've started to go off him for being just a little bit too much like hard work.  But : he doesn't single out anyone for any specific characteristic other than the quality (or lack of ) of what they deliver, be it bike frames or aerodynamic tests.  I had seen the CW video before all this furore broke and thought at the time that it was embarrassingly inept.    And I've seen Hambini giving all sorts of people highly abusive commentary on other stuff and it wasn't because they were male or female.  He is one of those irritating people who shouts 'inconvenient truths' that you don't like, in a way you don't like, but its hard to ignore because deep down you know what he is saying is correct.  Maybe he was a bit sexist / misogynistic : but that was a sidebar to his main reason for having a go which was they truly awful video.

You and dobby156 win this comment section for me and I wish I could give each of you ten likes.

There's a world of difference between 'grass roots uptake = more men in industry' and 'shitty behaviour by men = discouraging the women in industry' that you've missed there.

Compact Corned Beef wrote:

There's a world of difference between 'grass roots uptake = more men in industry' and 'shitty behaviour by men = discouraging the women in industry' that you've missed there.

Though you clearly believe it to be true - shitty behaviour is not gender specific.