TalkTV segment follows sentencing of drunk cyclist for injuring pedestrian
Suspended sentence for drunk cyclist who knocked pedestrian unconscious, as Mr Loophole uses case to call for new laws and bicycle number plates
Carwyn Thomas admitted two charges of causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving and was sentenced to 14 months in jail, suspended for two years for the pavement collision
A drunk cyclist who hit two women on a pavement in Cheshire before riding off, leaving one of the victims unconscious, with broken teeth and an injury to her little finger that later had to be amputated, has been given a suspended jail sentence.
Carwyn Thomas pleaded guilty to two charges of causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving and appeared before a judge at Chester Crown Court who called his actions "shameful" and sentenced the drunk cyclist to a 14-month prison sentence, suspended for two years.
MailOnline reports Kate Wilson was hit "12ft through the air" when Thomas crashed into them from behind as the group of friends walked to get a taxi in Nantwich, in Cheshire. Mrs Wilson was knocked unconscious and landed on her face after being thrown into the air "like she was a crash test dummy".
She suffered broken teeth and an injury to the little finger on her right hand, the finger later needing to be amputated. Mrs Wilson's friend Samantha Latham also sustained ligament damage to her hand and a bruised hand, a verbal altercation with Thomas ensuing before the cyclist rode off.
The court heard he was "grossly impaired" by alcohol and will have to wear a tag for 120 days as part of an alcohol abstinence monitoring programme, having pleaded guilty to both charges of causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving.
Judge Steven Everett told the court: "I am not a maker of the law, I am an enforcer. But if I had my way, I would make a compensation order for many thousands of pounds. If you had any compassion and any feeling, any sense of shame or remorse, you would have looked at Kate Wilson as she was lying on the ground, unconscious and potentially dead.
"You would have done your very best to help them, instead of being aggressive and unpleasant which is what you were. Words cannot express how badly and how shamefully you behaved."
Thomas could not be ordered to pay Mrs Wilson compensation as he has little money and did not have insurance.
She told the court: "I have no-one to sue because he has no money and because he was not insured. As a community, people need to be less tolerant of cyclists cycling in areas where they should not be. They can cause real damage. We need more powerful laws for when these incidents occur."
The case has been leapt on by certain sections of the media, Nick Freeman, otherwise known by his Mr Loophole nickname, the lawyer famous for obtaining not guilty verdicts for celebrities charged with driving offences, appearing on TalkTV to make the case for updated legislation and cyclists to be required to display a number plate.
The segment was broadcast this morning, a clip from Mike Graham's show having been since posted on YouTube by TalkTV with a factually incorrect title claiming Thomas "killed two", a title that remains up and uncorrected more than 10 hours later (at the time of writing).
During the show Freeman said: "All we've got is the Offences Against The Person Act 1861, wanton and furious cycling, which was designed for horse carriages not for cycles. So we don't really have any relevant legislation and what little legislation we have, such as not going through red lights, there's no teeth behind it because you can't identify the driver [rider] and even if you can identify them, there's no real punishment. It's a small financial penalty, so the law needs to be revised.
"If you don't have legislation and you don't make people accountable then they're going to do whatever they want. It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously.
"If you don't know who's cycling, if you don't have a system whereby they can be traced, as you do with motor cars, they cycle with impunity, they can do what they like and that's exactly what's happening.
"There's no means of identification in the majority of cases. It's very simple, there just needs to be parity. We have the same conversations and we will keep having them until the government says 'right, you're going to have number plates, you're going to have insurance, you cannot drive [ride] above the speed limit'."
Freeman has long since received weak to, at best, lukewarm support for his number plate calls, most recently getting shut down by a Jeremy Vine show panel discussing the matter, two years on from his petition that scraped across the 10,000-signature threshold, only to be emphatically rejected by the government.
There has more recently been more support politically for 'dangerous cycling' laws, the previous Conservative government ready to pass "dangerous cycling" laws, legislation that was put on hold by the election. The Labour Party also said during the campaign that it "will change the law to protect people from dangerous cycling" if it was in government next, although this statement was not seen in the party's manifesto or King's Speech, not that its omission from headline policy precludes future legislation.
Now, a spokeswoman for the Department for Transport said: "The safety of our roads is an absolute priority for this Government, and that's why we are committed to delivering a new Road Safety Strategy – the first in over a decade. We will set out next steps on this in due course."
The topic of dangerous cycling attracted widespread national print and broadcast media coverage in May, during the aftermath of a coroner's inquest being told that no charges would be brought against a cyclist who was riding laps of London's Regent's Park when he crashed into a pensioner, causing her fatal injuries.
The cyclist, Brian Fitzgerald, was riding in a group at a speed of between 25mph and 29mph at the time of the fatal crash, which led to the death of 81-year-old Hilda Griffiths. The speed limit in the park is 20mph, but the Metropolitan Police confirmed that it does not apply to people riding bicycles (as is the case throughout the country), and that the case had been closed because there was "insufficient evidence for a real prospect of conviction".
Of course, even with legislation to offer parity between sentences for dangerous driving and cycling offences, there is no guarantee of a more serious sentence than the one Thomas received for his injuring of the pedestrians in Cheshire.
In December, we reported that a motorist, who was found with a bottle of alcohol in her car and to be slurring her words, having fled scene after hitting and injuring a cyclist in a collision, was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, suspended for 18 months, a less severe sentence than Thomas (although she was ordered to pay the victim compensation).
Likewise, in November, an "arrogant” speeding driver with drugs and alcohol in his system avoided jail for killing a cyclist. Harry Bennett was sentenced to an almost identical punishment as Thomas received, despite Bennett having killed 77-year-old Geoffrey Dean.
Bennett, who killed Mr Dean while speeding at up to 51mph in a 30mph zone, and who was found to have traces of ketamine, cocaine, and alcohol in his system at the time of the fatal collision, was sentenced to 16 months in prison, suspended for two years.
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Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.
Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.
'Man bites dog' reporting in cyclist-hating UK. "...less tolerant of cyclists..." I don't think is possible? The UK has one of the most toxic motornormative cultures on the planet. This drunken idiot was riding a bicycle. It should be about alcohol issues, not cyclists
Meanwhile drivers kill 5 people a day and seriously injure (life changing) 82 people. Every. Day.
As usual, the focus is on the <1% rarity of death and injury from cycling and motornormative media accepts the >99% of KSI from drivers.
'It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously.'
Obviously, some people drive dangerously even with number plates. If this wasn't the case I wouldn't be submitting dozens of reports a year.
However, I would drive exactly the same. I really don't want to kill or hurt anyone. Perhaps the answer is to revoke the license of anyone who can't behave responsibly behind the wheel regardless of whether they think they'll be prosecuted or not.
Clearly the drunk riding the cycle is at fault, and was correctly punished.
However, I'm focussing on the troll. if Mr Poophole thinks that "Furious Cycling" is 'all we've got", why is he allowed to continue being a lawyer?
And this is glorious:
""If you don't have legislation and you don't make people accountable then they're going to do whatever they want. It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously."
So no one with a number plate on their car drives dangerously ... dur !
Plus we get:
""If you don't know who's cycling, if you don't have a system whereby they can be traced, as you do with motor cars, they cycle with impunity, they can do what they like and that's exactly what's happening."
Errrr ...he didn't have a numberplate, he left the scene and he WAS traced ... double dur !
The perpetrator in this case sounds like an awful person, and I'd be happy for them to receive a stiffer sentence.
But having a man who makes a lot of money out of finding excuses for the dangerous driving of his clients is not the person to talk to about improving road safety. He's a horrible, horrible man, and willfully so. I can just about imagine that the cyclist in this case might have temporary been in a bad place due to drinking or causing his drinking and would have felt bad about it once he sobered up and had time to reflect. Mr Loophole has spent years soberly accepting lots of money to keep our roads less safe.
Obviously I feel bad for Ms Wilson, but the physics of this do not compute. Unless it was one of those new-fangled bicycles with a trebuchet on the front?
"If you don't have legislation and you don't make people accountable then they're going to do whatever they want. It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously"
Ha Ha, did he actually say this, is he implying that there are lots of otherwise dangerous drivers who are currently controlled by the presence of number plates, bearing in mind how lawless the roads appear to be much of the time already then this would be a terrifying scenario
I am not sure why Nasty Nick uses a case where the cyclist was identified and prosecuted to call for licence plates to identify a rider, is he really that dim? With over a million untaxed, unlicensed or uninsured vehicles on the road the licence plate is hardly a proven solution.
Is he that dim or is he, much like the likes of Donald Trump, preaching to an audience that already have their minds made up and just need that irrational hatred they harbour stoked a little.
The whole safety debate around bikes/cars is nuts. We have hard statistics and yet they play almost no role in the debate. Instead its all anecdotes and opinions. What a world it would be if statistics had any place in it.
I think there's a reasonable compromise to made here.
There should be new legislature to further criminalise fleeing the scene of a criminal injury, with a HEAVY minimum sentence.
The law would be angostic to the relevant legislation under which the injury was caused; Offences against the persons, RTA, HASWA. That way, absolute shitstains of all walks of life get the book thrown at them regardless. Effectively criminalise inhumanity.
I'm also pressing x to doubt on the bike-person collision having enough energy to throw a person "12 feet through the air". Knocked to the ground with considerable force, I'd understand, but a basic grasp of physics says that's hyperbole.
Nor apparently does a video of the driver, showing his face and tattoos... (a story featured here - too lazy to find it tho or list all the creative "no way to prove" excuses responses).
How much time will the police be allocated to spend on tracking down all the cyclists who will have fake or otherwise illegal plates and no insurance? Will we see chases through parks and around duck ponds, stakeouts at the bike racks? Police emerging from bike hangars when you open them?
Yet again, the out group known as cyclists are on the receiving end of ridiculous criticism and blatant bias by the right wing media. The same media which ignores and even excuses the same behaviour from drivers.
Carwyn Thomas' actions were disgusting and criminal, and he was justly taken to court for it, so for people to claim that there are no laws applying is, frankly, idiotic. Exactly what I'd expect from slimy lawyers and car addicts pretending to present a tv programme and be objective.
To be fair to Graham, he's had to find other avenues for his talent now his role in the Indiana Jones franchise has dried up, playing that Gestapo villain with the sore hand. And Mark Francois has cornered the market in Peter Glaze impersonators.
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29 comments
'Man bites dog' reporting in cyclist-hating UK. "...less tolerant of cyclists..." I don't think is possible? The UK has one of the most toxic motornormative cultures on the planet. This drunken idiot was riding a bicycle. It should be about alcohol issues, not cyclists
Meanwhile drivers kill 5 people a day and seriously injure (life changing) 82 people. Every. Day.
As usual, the focus is on the <1% rarity of death and injury from cycling and motornormative media accepts the >99% of KSI from drivers.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-ro...
'It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously.'
Obviously, some people drive dangerously even with number plates. If this wasn't the case I wouldn't be submitting dozens of reports a year.
However, I would drive exactly the same. I really don't want to kill or hurt anyone. Perhaps the answer is to revoke the license of anyone who can't behave responsibly behind the wheel regardless of whether they think they'll be prosecuted or not.
Clearly the drunk riding the cycle is at fault, and was correctly punished.
However, I'm focussing on the troll. if Mr Poophole thinks that "Furious Cycling" is 'all we've got", why is he allowed to continue being a lawyer?
And this is glorious:
""If you don't have legislation and you don't make people accountable then they're going to do whatever they want. It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously."
So no one with a number plate on their car drives dangerously ... dur !
Plus we get:
""If you don't know who's cycling, if you don't have a system whereby they can be traced, as you do with motor cars, they cycle with impunity, they can do what they like and that's exactly what's happening."
Errrr ...he didn't have a numberplate, he left the scene and he WAS traced ... double dur !
Mr Poophole baffles me. How can such an imbecile remain employed?
The perpetrator in this case sounds like an awful person, and I'd be happy for them to receive a stiffer sentence.
But having a man who makes a lot of money out of finding excuses for the dangerous driving of his clients is not the person to talk to about improving road safety. He's a horrible, horrible man, and willfully so. I can just about imagine that the cyclist in this case might have temporary been in a bad place due to drinking or causing his drinking and would have felt bad about it once he sobered up and had time to reflect. Mr Loophole has spent years soberly accepting lots of money to keep our roads less safe.
Mr P**phole's shameless profiteering and double standards aside: a suspended sentence and a tag is a slap on the wrist.
'Kate Wilson was hit "12ft through the air"'
Obviously I feel bad for Ms Wilson, but the physics of this do not compute. Unless it was one of those new-fangled bicycles with a trebuchet on the front?
I suspect it does compute if the cyclist was doing 52mph.
"If you don't have legislation and you don't make people accountable then they're going to do whatever they want. It would be like taking number plates off cars, people would drive dangerously"
Ha Ha, did he actually say this, is he implying that there are lots of otherwise dangerous drivers who are currently controlled by the presence of number plates, bearing in mind how lawless the roads appear to be much of the time already then this would be a terrifying scenario
'Talk TV, for those who find GB news too mainstream'
The host looks positively porcine.
He looks like Jabba the Hutt wearing a Michael Gove cosplay.
Archibald Graham (calls himself "Mike Graham" for obvious reasons). A famously stupid and unpleasant person.
Obese reporters demonising people using non-motorised transport. Is this me being fat-ist or them being thick?
I am not sure why Nasty Nick uses a case where the cyclist was identified and prosecuted to call for licence plates to identify a rider, is he really that dim? With over a million untaxed, unlicensed or uninsured vehicles on the road the licence plate is hardly a proven solution.
Is he that dim or is he, much like the likes of Donald Trump, preaching to an audience that already have their minds made up and just need that irrational hatred they harbour stoked a little.
The whole safety debate around bikes/cars is nuts. We have hard statistics and yet they play almost no role in the debate. Instead its all anecdotes and opinions. What a world it would be if statistics had any place in it.
I think there's a reasonable compromise to made here.
There should be new legislature to further criminalise fleeing the scene of a criminal injury, with a HEAVY minimum sentence.
The law would be angostic to the relevant legislation under which the injury was caused; Offences against the persons, RTA, HASWA. That way, absolute shitstains of all walks of life get the book thrown at them regardless. Effectively criminalise inhumanity.
I'm also pressing x to doubt on the bike-person collision having enough energy to throw a person "12 feet through the air". Knocked to the ground with considerable force, I'd understand, but a basic grasp of physics says that's hyperbole.
I see what you did there.
I think it's worth putting this in capitals...
NUMBER PLATES DO NOT IDENTIFY THE DRIVER
Nor apparently does a video of the driver, showing his face and tattoos... (a story featured here - too lazy to find it tho or list all the creative "no way to prove"
excusesresponses).Well, they definitely help for most of cases. Still though I will put plates on my bike, only when it gets mandatory for pedestrians too.
How much time will the police be allocated to spend on tracking down all the cyclists who will have fake or otherwise illegal plates and no insurance? Will we see chases through parks and around duck ponds, stakeouts at the bike racks? Police emerging from bike hangars when you open them?
They'll do the same for fake plates on bicycles that they do for fake plates on motor vehicles. Nothing.
Cue: police e-bike riders chase Cat3 rider, police end up in hedge after failure to corner like a seasoned cyclist.
Yet again, the out group known as cyclists are on the receiving end of ridiculous criticism and blatant bias by the right wing media. The same media which ignores and even excuses the same behaviour from drivers.
Carwyn Thomas' actions were disgusting and criminal, and he was justly taken to court for it, so for people to claim that there are no laws applying is, frankly, idiotic. Exactly what I'd expect from slimy lawyers and car addicts pretending to present a tv programme and be objective.
I wonder if Graham has grown his concrete yet?
Yes, it's in his head.
To be fair to Graham, he's had to find other avenues for his talent now his role in the Indiana Jones franchise has dried up, playing that Gestapo villain with the sore hand. And Mark Francois has cornered the market in Peter Glaze impersonators.
Drivers run red lights and speed with impunity. None are afraid of punishment because they get away with it every single day.
A registration plate is no deterrent to drivers.
Also, if it's impossible to apprehend a cyclist who leaves the scene of a crash without registration plates, how did they catch Mr Thomas?