Turning right “most dangerous manoeuvre” for cyclists, resulting in over 10,000 collisions in ten years, new study finds

 so regularly end up a long way over into the other carriageway (particularly drivers of SUVs and the like), which is ironic given that many of them are happy to give passing a cyclist with inches to spare a go

This is extremely noticeable during 'constricted close-passing' where the overtaking driver is very keen to squeeze the soft-bodied cyclist in order to avoid the oncoming hard-steel vehicle. This one is on a humpbacked canal bridge, so overtaking drivers can't see oncoming vehicles until they arrive on the crest of the bridge- they just overtake anyway and swerve over into the cyclist if they have to! It's PO18 OSK- VW Transporter

Milliseconds later

My experience is they don't give a rip on your road position but will draw alongside regardless of whatever direction you want. 

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Yup. NEVER wait to turn right directly on the white line in the middle of the road. Drivers will take it that you've given them permission to squeeze past at normal speed. Best to take primary.

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Sarcasm switch ON

If the UK stayed in the EU and fully adopted EU rules, including driving/cycling on the right hand side this problem would not exist!

Sarcasm switch OFF

It's the same here in NL. Yes, we have envious infrastructure blah blah, but it's not everywhere. Right outside my apartment the junction (cross roads with tram and bus traffic) I need to use to turn left on my way to work means I have to race out of the bike lane and take primary before someone in a car/van/truck decides to cut me off as they're going straight on or right. In my experience, the worst to deal with are Luton style vans...don't know why. Those things are fast off the line when they're empty! 

Then you have those folks who lift their arm/hand out to indicate for barely a second before dropping it down and immediately manovering without ever looking behind them.

When i come across others, I always give them a wide berth till its safe to overtake (and fire up the rocket boosters...) unless ive had them in my sight for a while and judged that have some road awareness. 

I remember when a lot of local councils used to run a small road safety course for new cyclists. I think it used to either be completely free or for a very small amount of money. If they stopped running those classes, they should really bring it back.

Global Nomad wrote:

In my experience cycling in London a majority of cyclists are unable to look behind them and often swerve if they try. And do so late or as they intend to turn. A lot of new riders or inexperienced ones think sticking out an arm is sufficient. I've almost had collisions when riding behind them. Its not all the riders fault of course but it's a long way from the careful and defensive riding that many years of cycling makes core behaviour

Indeed. The advice to always look behind turns out in many cases to include "whilst wobbling about the road and not seeing the hazard that appears in front as you're twisting your neck".

The answer, as Sriracha notes, is mirrors. Do you look behind over your shoulder when driving? Modern mirrors tend to be a better bet, since they also allow you to look forward at the same time.

Here's a recommendation, arrived at after trying every bluddy cycling mirror there is (only a slight bit of hyperbole there):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BriskMore-Rearview-Adjustable-Handlebar-Bicycle...

These seem to be immune to road vibrations, have a very clear glass that's convex enough to give a wide field of view but don't reduce near things to just dots, can be got in any position to work no matter the angle of your bars and are well made. There are 2" and 3" versions. I find the 2" versions more than adequate, as long as I have me prescription (sun)specs on.

There are several less expensive versions to the Briskmores (costing £10 rather than £15-16 a pair) but these come with plastic rather than glass lenses.  Plastic lenses scratch and discolour quickly, as two Sprintech sets I have (costing twice as much) will testify.

Cugel wrote:

The answer, as Sriracha notes, is mirrors. Do you look behind over your shoulder when driving? Modern mirrors tend to be a better bet, since they also allow you to look forward at the same time.

Yes - yes I do. I was taught to drive before these fancy curved mirrors came in, so it was ingrained into me to watch my blind spots. A quick glance over my shoulder to check for cars right alongside me - just in case.
Of course, in a car looking over my shoulder doesn't cause a wobble....

Thanks for the mirror link - I've been thinking about buying mirrors* for a while.

*wing/bar/side/rear view mirrors?

Of course many drivers find it difficult to even look forwards let alone use there mirrors. And lets not talk about indicating when turning rather than before...if at all ...

Bar mirrors
I also move my head a lot when driving and always check my passenger door mirror when turning left. Thick pillars and high beltlines on modem cars (dang you pedestrian safety regulations) mean this is essential.

HoldingOn wrote:

Cugel wrote:

The answer, as Sriracha notes, is mirrors. Do you look behind over your shoulder when driving? Modern mirrors tend to be a better bet, since they also allow you to look forward at the same time.

Yes - yes I do. I was taught to drive before these fancy curved mirrors came in, so it was ingrained into me to watch my blind spots. A quick glance over my shoulder to check for cars right alongside me - just in case.
Of course, in a car looking over my shoulder doesn't cause a wobble....

Thanks for the mirror link - I've been thinking about buying mirrors* for a while.

*wing/bar/side/rear view mirrors?

Mirrors like this seem popular with our friends across the pond

https://head-zup.com/

Americans on Paris Brest Paris were about 50/50 whether they used these. I expect it takes a little getting used to, but better than looking at a mirror down on the bars.

wycombewheeler wrote:

Mirrors like this seem popular with our friends across the pond

https://head-zup.com/

Americans on Paris Brest Paris were about 50/50 whether they used these. I expect it takes a little getting used to, but better than looking at a mirror down on the bars.

I'm intrigued by that, so I've gone and ordered one to try out. Seems expensive for what it is though.

Save your money!  Just get some spy glasses.

chrisonatrike wrote:

Save your money!  Just get some spy glasses.

Dagnammit! It's too late to cancel my order now.

Cugel wrote:

Indeed. The advice to always look behind turns out in many cases to include "whilst wobbling about the road and not seeing the hazard that appears in front as you're twisting your neck".

The answer, as Sriracha notes, is mirrors. Do you look behind over your shoulder when driving? Modern mirrors tend to be a better bet, since they also allow you to look forward at the same time.

Here's a recommendation, arrived at after trying every bluddy cycling mirror there is (only a slight bit of hyperbole there):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BriskMore-Rearview-Adjustable-Handlebar-Bicycle...

These seem to be immune to road vibrations, have a very clear glass that's convex enough to give a wide field of view but don't reduce near things to just dots, can be got in any position to work no matter the angle of your bars and are well made. There are 2" and 3" versions. I find the 2" versions more than adequate, as long as I have me prescription (sun)specs on.

There are several less expensive versions to the Briskmores (costing £10 rather than £15-16 a pair) but these come with plastic rather than glass lenses.  Plastic lenses scratch and discolour quickly, as two Sprintech sets I have (costing twice as much) will testify.

Here's my recommendation, the Cateye BM-45 (£12.99): https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cateye-BM45-Bar-End-Mirror_84534.htm

Have you tried one of these? I find it easy to adjust whilst riding and stays where you put it (except when you bump it up against stuff). Once you get the position just right, you can just glance at it so you know what's behind you and can plan your maneouvre. Obviously you'd still want to make a quick shoulder check before turning etc.

hawkinspeter wrote:

 

Here's my recommendation, the Cateye BM-45 (£12.99): https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cateye-BM45-Bar-End-Mirror_84534.htm

Have you tried one of these? I find it easy to adjust whilst riding and stays where you put it (except when you bump it up against stuff). Once you get the position just right, you can just glance at it so you know what's behind you and can plan your maneouvre. Obviously you'd still want to make a quick shoulder check before turning etc.

+1 for this mirror.  Got one a year or so ago, and absolutely love it.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Here's my recommendation, the Cateye BM-45 (£12.99): https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cateye-BM45-Bar-End-Mirror_84534.htm

Have you tried one of these? I find it easy to adjust whilst riding and stays where you put it (except when you bump it up against stuff). Once you get the position just right, you can just glance at it so you know what's behind you and can plan your maneouvre. Obviously you'd still want to make a quick shoulder check before turning etc.

I haven't tried that most modern version but I do have a pair of the similar older Cateye bar end mirrors. I find they have two real issues: they vibrate a lot; they won't stay in position. The new ones might have improved things, I suppose. 

I do have a 3" diameter pair of the Briskmore mirrors on the touring bike and these do stay put but they also vibrate a bit more than the 2" diameter versions. As they're so clear (and larger) they still serve to give a clear and wide view behind. But the 2" versions on the various faster-ridden bikes seem vibration free on even the worst scab-gravel roads that vibrate the old Cateye mirrors to the point of can-no-longer-see-stuff.

Cugel wrote:

I haven't tried that most modern version but I do have a pair of the similar older Cateye bar end mirrors. I find they have two real issues: they vibrate a lot; they won't stay in position. The new ones might have improved things, I suppose. 

I do have a 3" diameter pair of the Briskmore mirrors on the touring bike and these do stay put but they also vibrate a bit more than the 2" diameter versions. As they're so clear (and larger) they still serve to give a clear and wide view behind. But the 2" versions on the various faster-ridden bikes seem vibration free on even the worst scab-gravel roads that vibrate the old Cateye mirrors to the point of can-no-longer-see-stuff.

They must have fixed that as the BM-45 stays in position and I haven't noticed it vibrating at all.

hawkinspeter wrote:

They must have fixed that as the BM-45 stays in position and I haven't noticed it vibrating at all.

 

Same here.

For a flat bar hybrid bike, I've found these Zefal ones to be the best. That includes riding along trails where there is a lot of vibration and they hold their position. Their larger size gives a great field of view and further helps when there are a lot of vibrations from poor road surfaces, meaning a very quick glance is sufficient.

Zefal Dooback 2 Bar End Mirror https://amzn.eu/d/8azHbI5

Zefal Dooback 2 Bar End Mirror

Thanks for the recommendation! I use drop bars almost always, but I looked further and came up with the easy-mount Zefal Spy which might work for me.

Zefal Spy

Anybody have experience of this?

wtjs wrote:

Zefal Dooback 2 Bar End Mirror

Thanks for the recommendation! I use drop bars almost always, but I looked further and came up with the easy-mount Zefal Spy which might work for me.

Zefal Spy

Anybody have experience of this?

I have one of those on my flat bar cargo bike (Tern GSD).  It's pretty good, although difficult to position to avoid my arm - or my passenger - blocking my view.  But definitely better than nothing.

But for drop bars, I'd definitely say go for the Cat Eye recommended by HP.

Bar end mirrors are too far.

Edit: I have barend lights there anyway!

Good idea glasses mirror, may try this https://www.ebay.com/itm/402635817231?hash=item5dbef7010f:g:uakAAOSwstJZ...

wtjs wrote:

Zefal Dooback 2 Bar End Mirror

Thanks for the recommendation! I use drop bars almost always, but I looked further and came up with the easy-mount Zefal Spy which might work for me.

Zefal Spy

Anybody have experience of this?

I've got a Zefal Dooback 2 Bar End Mirror on my gravel bike. Looks a little bit strange but I find it works well, I find the circular mirrors are too small to see very much.

I had a Zefal Spy and was quite happy with it until it fell off. It's cheap, the convexity is about right, you can swap it from bike to bike and it doesn't vibrate too terribly.

But... it will mark your bar tape, can get in the way of your hand in the drops. and it fell off without notice. I knew where I had last looked at it so went back instantly, but it had vanished. I was on my commute so must have been smashed pretty quickly into microplastics. To be fair, I'd had it about a year and it had survived a couple of other drops.

I bought a pair of Sprintechs as a replacement - one for each bike. They look much nicer, and don't vibrate much. but are a bit too convex. Both the Zefal and the Sprintech will not work for every hand position - I set them for riding on the hoods and tops, but if I'm in the drops, standing at traffic lights, or in my comedy "aero" blob position, the view isn't much use.

If I ever need another mirror I'll try something else or get another Zefal and add a zip tie.

I had a Zefal Spy

Thanks for the info!

Even with modern mirrors on cars I still shoulder check regardless. The advantage of a bar mirror is that I can pick my road position pretty early for turning or negotiating traffic calming measures.