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news
The Move podcast panel, Mallorca (credit - Elizabeth Kreutz, via Lance Armstrong, Instagram)Why was Mark Cavendish riding with Lance Armstrong this week?
So, Lance Armstrong, Jan Ullrich, Bradley Wiggins, Mark Cavendish, George Hincapie and Johan Bruyneel walk into a bar in Mallorca…
It may be the set up to a not-particularly funny joke about pro cycling’s past and present, but it is a premise that has provoked quite a bit of consternation among the sport’s fans this week.
On Tuesday we reported on the live blog that Britain’s two most recognisable road cyclists had joined Armstrong, Hincapie and Ullrich – along with a dozen-strong contingent of paying customers – on a series of group rides on the Balearic Island.
This end-of-season gathering – comprising, it’s safe to say, a veritable who’s who of the past thirty years of professional cycling – formed part of the 2022 edition of ‘The Move Mallorca’, a cycling holiday off-shoot of the former (stress, former) seven-time Tour de France winner’s long running podcast, where guests pay more than $30,000 to ride a few wheels behind Big Tex and his chums on the Sa Calobra.
It’s unclear at the moment whether Wiggins and Cavendish have been paid for their participation in the American’s group rides (Wiggins is a frequent presence in Mallorca so may have just popped along for a few extra training miles on his old pre-Tour stomping ground), but Armstrong has spared little opportunity to plaster the British riders’ faces all over his social media channels.
However, there was one photo in particular that seemed to flip a switch in a certain section of the online cycling community.
The image depicts host Armstrong sharing a laugh on an outdoor terrace with what constitutes a Fantasy Cycling line-up of podcast guests and who he describes as “dear friends”: 1997 Tour winner and the Texan’s perennial rival in France, Jan Ullrich, longstanding US Postal teammate and friend George Hincapie, and the man once regarded as one of the greatest directeurs sportifs in the business, Johan Bruyneel.
And Cavendish and Wiggins, of course.
“This photo makes me a bit sick,” one Twitter user wrote upon seeing the image of the chummy podcast recording.
“Even if solely from a PR perspective, surely this is something you just DON’T do,” said another.
“I guess optics don't matter when you're retired (or nearly retired)…”
“I am disappointed Cav is there… As an active pro cyclist I don’t think he should be with people who have lifetime UCI bans…”
Meanwhile, Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins have been cycling in Mallorca with some American who didn't win the Tour de France seven times. I guess optics don't matter when you're retired (or nearly retired). pic.twitter.com/bTIeXrIREY
— Matt Butler (@mattbutler503) September 27, 2022
While Bruyneel, Hincapie and Ullrich (the subject of Daniel Friebe’s recent excellent biography) also remain synonymous with the EPO generation of the 1990s and 2000s, it’s Armstrong’s decade-long status as persona non grata – and Wiggins’ and Cavendish’s apparent willingness to be associated with his undeniably tainted ‘brand’ – that has appeared to most rankle onlookers of their Mallorcan shindig.
(In fact, the troubled Ullrich was and remains a more popular figure among cycling fans than his American counterpart, despite his own spectacular fall from grace in 2006 – an intriguing paradox that perhaps sheds a light on the sport’s uneasy relationship with its murky past. Do we ostracise certain riders because they’re cheats? Or because we just didn’t like them that much to begin with?)
In any case, that Cavendish and Wiggins appeared alongside the banned Texan shouldn’t be surprising, however. The Manx sprinter has already featured on The Move once before, and has cited Armstrong’s personal support for and encouragement of his fledging career during the latter's ill-fated comeback of 2009 and 2010.
In his first autobiography At Speed, published in 2013 – the same year Armstrong confessed his doping to Oprah Winfrey – 2011 world champion Cavendish described the 1993 rainbow jersey winner as “mesmeric” and, while describing the “bitterness” of learning that it was all a carefully orchestrated charade, acknowledged that the “race to expose him at times resembled a witch-hunt”.
Meanwhile, Wiggins’ attitude towards Armstrong has oscillated wildly during his career, from praising his rival for the 2009 Tour podium in his first autobiography to calling him a “lying bastard” in the wake of his 2013 doping confession, before defending his “human side” and including him in his book of ‘Icons’ in 2018.
That human side can be witnessed in The Move’s 46-minute long episode (once you ignore Armstrong’s incessant attempts to shift some product).
Armstrong jokes that he can get Wiggins’ knighthood taken away following a typically heavy night on the tiles, Hincapie and Cavendish reminisce about their time together at High Road, and a healthy-looking Ullrich gives Remco Evenepoel some invaluable and experience-heavy advice (“Not too many parties in the winter!”). Meanwhile, Armstrong casually drops in some allegations (the 2012 Olympic road race, anyone?) and makes Cavendish uncomfortable, asking him the kind of questions about the 2023 Tour and that record which would, in normal circumstances, result in a blunt, expletive-laden retort to an unsuspecting journalist.
But regardless of the human aspect of appearing on a podcast and going for a spin with a pal on holiday, it’s the optics that matter to most.
While the retired Wiggins has his high-profile punditry gig with Eurosport-GCN, Cavendish – after all – is still a pro bike racer.
So, how do Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl feel about their outgoing rider swanning around Mallorca with the sport’s most controversial figure and their sponsors’ logos emblazoned on his chest? When contacted by the Independent, the Belgian team declined to comment on the matter and, anyway, it won’t be their problem for long.
Moreover, what do Cavendish’s potential suitors think about the Brit and American’s ‘special relationship’?
The former world champion is heavily linked with a move to the French Pro Conti B&B Hotels squad (set for a funding boost from new title sponsor Carrefour), a team that relies on a wildcard invitation to the Tour de France. Yep, the same Tour that has unceremoniously crossed Cavendish’s riding partner from the record books.
Perhaps none of this will matter a jot, and the cycling world will move onto the next salacious bit of gossip (Remco to Ineos anyone?) before even Armstrong can flash his detractors ‘The Look’.
In any case, the condemnation of Wiggins and Cavendish’s stint in Mallorca (and even Armstrong’s continued status as persona non grata in a sport littered with the remnants of its not-so-distant past) highlights cycling’s ongoing struggle – almost ten years on from Oprah – to reconcile the apparent need for clean, black and white narratives with its extremely grey reality.
After obtaining a PhD, lecturing, and hosting a history podcast at Queen’s University Belfast, Ryan joined road.cc in December 2021 and since then has kept the site’s readers and listeners informed and enthralled (well at least occasionally) on news, the live blog, and the road.cc Podcast. After boarding a wrong bus at the world championships and ruining a good pair of jeans at the cyclocross, he now serves as road.cc’s senior news writer. Before his foray into cycling journalism, he wallowed in the equally pitiless world of academia, where he wrote a book about Victorian politics and droned on about cycling and bikes to classes of bored students (while taking every chance he could get to talk about cycling in print or on the radio). He can be found riding his bike very slowly around the narrow, scenic country lanes of Co. Down.
Latest Comments
- Mikezerodown 1 sec ago
Another one Mike taking over for peanuts....
- wtjs 9 hours 26 min ago
it seems that most places just rely on sufficient policing to reduce the issue...
- Matt Page 10 hours 10 min ago
Many manufacturers, including Scribe, can give you methods to reduce the noise level. On Scribe, and other ratchet designs it's usually just adding...
- wtjs 10 hours 48 min ago
It wouldn't work at all where wtjs lives...
- Sriracha 11 hours 5 min ago
Pretty sure AI could skim through hours of footage in a few seconds to identify suspicious events. Of course someone in authority has to care in...
- chrisonabike 11 hours 13 min ago
Bonsai samurai? Or is it just a case of "they seem to get smaller every year"?
- mdavidford 13 hours 56 min ago
I dunno - seems like it's coming round on a regular basis...
- Rich_cb 15 hours 38 min ago
The mistake is to focus on the US....
- chrisonabike 15 hours 50 min ago
I mean it seems silly to complain in detail when we're firmly in the territory in the UK of "you will have to live with this the rest of your life ...
- eburtthebike 18 hours 21 min ago
I thought students were supposed to be intelligent?
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35 comments
I read this and I'm proud to say the 10 trophies I won in my cycling career I've never had to hand back..... I thank you!
Armstrong used drugs - in a time when near everyone did - and was a massive arsehole. He didn't murder anyone though. He did the crime, did the time, and - at least now - has come 'clean' and mostly repented.
Everyone deserves a chance at rehabilitation, when they've had their punishment.
Like it or not, Armstrong was a massive part of the sport. If Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, etc., can all have post-racing careers in sport, then so should Armstrong - given the above.
I'm of the mind that Lord Voldemort and chums don't care for the optics from a few years ago and have done a very good long term PR job on the rest of the world.
I think the fact that that his Podcast is reported to make $1m+ per episode proves that while some people abhor him, others (a lot of others) can forgive or at least now see him as an interesting character.
The fact we have our own British hero Cav on the couch is a bit strange, but if nothing else, honest and not trying to hide the fact they are aquaintences/friends who have 14 odd years of history and enjoy each others company. It's possible Cav is looking beyond his cycling career and has an opportunity to make some money with (he who shall not be named) down the road.
I sort of forgive Lance. I don't agree with how he treated people or worked the system etc.. and it's proven that he was an absolute arsehole, but I believe he should be in the record books, and I don't begrudge his 'airtime'.
However I'm also the person who thinks Miguel Indurain winning five TdF's is as legitimate as an email from an African Prince who wants to gift me three million dollars, that Alejandro Valverde should have been kicked out pro-peloton in 2010 and not allowed to race again and Eddie Merxk is a filthy cheat who shouldn't be held up as cycling royallty... so take from that what you will.
"However I'm also the person who thinks Miguel Indurain winning five TdF's is as legitimate as an email from an African Prince who wants to gift me three million dollars, that Alejandro Valverde should have been kicked out pro-peloton in 2010 and not allowed to race again and Eddie Merxk is a filthy cheat who shouldn't be held up as cycling royallty."
I couldnt agree more and I will add Richard Virenque to the same category as Merckx, how he is still seen as hero I dont know. Oh, and there is Nibali, having watched him being towed at great speed by his team car nothing he has done since has any credibiity in my eyes.
Big fan of Lance, he pushed a lot of Americans to cycle and some of them ended up locking up their cars for bicycles in their daily commute, which is a huge win for their communities and our planet.
Of course these guys didn't stop cycling when the fraud was uncovered, so no big worries about dopping.
For me, there are a small number of people that have every right to still be furious with Lance and crew. Everyone else probably could, and arguably should, just chill out.
The guy sits outside the sport now, so isn't able to do any more harm. I've learnt to appreciate the guy as a villian, the soap opera character that we all hate, but we recognise as being superbly entertaining over the years.
Is it wrong of me to wish Lance Armstrong would take his I'll begotten riches and fork off ?
I know probably i'll get lynched in here, but there is nothing wrong with talking to people. We have to believe in forgiveness too. I'm pretty sure that there is nothing to gain for cav except exchanging some reminiscing, and also nothing to lose. Cav's career never needed or needs Lance in any way. Cav didn't fall in my eyes at all.
Forgiveness is a fine thing indeed, but does it not usually imply some measure of contrition or repentance on the part of the individual being forgiven? In nothing I've ever seen or heard has Armstrong ever shown an ounce of genuine remorse for his cheating nor his vicious attempts to ruin so many people's lives to protect himself. This sort of "aren't we all lads together and wasn't it all jolly good fun when I was racing" reminiscing just emphasises his narcissistic belief that he didn't really do too much wrong.
Good, thoughtful response.
Although deaf ears for some on here who are always right!
It's certainly a better response than simply childishly writing "whatever", even though somebody is politely answering a question you've asked them. It is indeed a good thoughtful response, and that is why I have given it a thoughtful reply, politely and respectfully disagreeing. That's how grown-up conversation works, you see.
By the way, that space in your head I appear to be occupying – sorry, I'm a bit skint this month, I can't afford to pay rent.
Lesson not learned then?
Well put. Completely agree.
Lance may have been the figurehead but professional cycling in that era was rotten from top to bottom.
When his doping was first exposed I was as disillusioned as anyone but over time I've come to realise he was just a symptom of a broken system.
When I rewatch some of his races now I can still admire his race craft, bike handling and sheer force of will.
He was/is an arsehole undoubtedly but that often goes hand in hand with the focus and drive needed to maintain performance at that level for such a long period.
I'm now fairly ambivalent towards him. He was the greatest GT cyclist of his era but that era is forever tainted. I don't wish him any ill however and don't think treating him like a pariah helps cycling in any way.
Velvet loafers & Bacardi 😂
Given his ambition. Cav clearly looks to be in bad company.
But. I just can't stop thinking there may a bit of cycling politics going on here. What these guys don't know about the TDF you could write on an EPO vial.
Cav was truly scuppered for that record TDF score this year. Do these guys hold the key in him cementing a best final shot at it in what will probably be his final pro year.
Call me when Armstrong has reconciled with, and is chatting cosily on his podcast to, Greg LeMond. But that'll never happen because (a) Lance tried to ruin Greg and his bicycle brand when the latter pointed out the former's links with Michele Ferrari looked well dodgy (which is also why I'll never buy a Trek bike in this lifetime) and (b) Greg is a generation older than Lance, so he wouldn't be able to condescend to him, and manipulate him, relying on the hangover of teenage hero-worship that Wiggins and Cavendish clearly still feel towards Armstrong. I don't know what this says about them, if anything, but it does prove the old saying that bullies are cowards.
Further evidence, as if it were needed, of Armstrong's cowardice and skin-deep remorse:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-63088914
I think it's in pretty poor taste to be honest. I note that Wiggins has even taken his teenage son Ben along to ride with them also.
Whether others have also done drugs, to ride with the sports biggest culprit, who was also a grade A arsehole, bullying and sueing anyone who crossed his path is not recommended.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Hincapie was also partial to partaking too.
I agree with your view on Armstrong being a grade a arsehole however I find myself strangely ambivalent towards what he's doing now and who involves themselves with him.
His titles have been stripped, he's had to stop racing. He's just a bloke trying to earn a living. Let him get on with it.
He made millions from cycling so doesn't need to 'earn a living any more'.
It wasn't the fact that he doped as most of the peloton was as well, it was the way he treated people if they rightly so questioned him about it. He ruined many people's lives. Friends and colleagues that didnt have to power or money to fight him.
He was a Grade A peice of sh*t and the majority would rather never see his face or hear his name again.
werent the sponsors, US Postal are a government agency after all, engaged in recovering most of those millions back as theyd been acquired under false pretences ?
I doubt he's "poor" but I dont think he is as comfortably counting the dollars in his bank account as you might think, but he brought that upon himself.
ultimately he's not someone I waste alot of energy thinking about, and I really dont care who he hangs out with, or that riders like Cav,Wiggo hang out with him.
Er, he's not poor not. Far from it in fact. He invested in Uber, I believe ,as a start up so is worth in excees of $50 million....
I almost went for he's not uber rich...instead of not poor
look its all relative once you reach a certain level of wealth, for sure he can live a pretty comfortable life and never have to worry about where the next pay cheque is coming from for the rest of his life, the point I was making all the legal fees and payouts cost him over a hundred million dollars, he lost hundreds of millions of dollars in sponsorship from it.
that he managed to invest in something that turned out probably to be worth nearer 20million dollars, assuming he cashed in after all the deductions, yes still mindblowingly rich compared to 99% of people on planet Earths standards, but he was worth easily over $500million before his confession on doping.
Michael Jordon for comparison is a billionaire, as is Tiger Woods, a clean Lance Armstrong 7 time winner of the TdF would easily be in that same wealth bracket by now, so he is rich, but not as insanely rich as he was or could have been.
Remember, he made his vast fortune cheating. He should be financially in the same position ha was before he cheated.
while true, no one would have won those tours without cheating.
Yep. That just about sums him up.
Isn't this "Texan discovered to have brash character" and "top athlete found have done anything it took to win also found to be incapable of letting it lie in other parts of life"?
Also: definitely doping bad, but even given talent and physique I don't have no amount of doping would have rendered me a top athlete because I simply wouldn't train that single-mindedly.
Mine's an outsider's perspective though as I'm not moved by cycle racing in any form. Apart from a respectful whistle at the deeds of audaxers and ultraracers.
He's a bloke trying to earn a living out of the sport which he did so much to ruin for so many fans and the sport which so many other honest people were driven out of for questioning him. He's filth. In that context, it's perfectly legitimate for people to object both to his continuing to try to make a living out of it and also for current professionals to assist him either by being paid to participate in his activities or just giving him goodwill free publicity. I am a great fan of both Cav and Brad but if people start saying well, if you apparently regard Armstrong's disgusting and dishonest behaviours as forgivable peccadilloes we have to question what your own behaviour is like then they will only have themselves to blame, I'm afraid.
I agree he's a grade a arsehole, he lied bullied and then lied and bullied some more.
He's been punished and he's paid the price. Even murderers get out eventually. How long does he stay punished for?
The more accurate analogy would be someone who'd cheated for financial gain in their profession, e.g. a doctor who'd accepted bribes to prescribe a particular drug, an accountant who'd falsified accounts etc, might be struck off for life. Obviously there's no way of banning Armstrong from commenting on cycling for life but for a current pro like Cav, who should be concerned about the image of the sport, to be associating with him and joking around as if what he did is all forgotten and forgiven, that leaves a pretty bad taste for me as a cycling fan.
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