Fancy a few bullet-points on Pinarello’s claims to get up to speed?
The Dogma F frame is 9% lighter than the F12 and the fork is 16% lighter
The Dogma F Disc frame kit (including seat post, headset, fork, and Talon cockpit) is 265g (21%) lighter than the F12
It is 12% stiffer around the bottom bracket
Disc brake version is “4.8% more aerodynamic” than the equivalent Dogma F12
Rim brake version is “3.2% more aerodynamic” than the equivalent Dogma F12
The disc brake model has lower drag than the rim brake version for the first time
Dogma F Disc (size 53) built up with Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 (9100) and DT Swiss ARC1400 wheels weighs 6.8kg (no pedals)
Pinarello remains one of the few brands that doesn’t offer a lightweight climbing bike and an aero bike at the top of its race bike range (although Specialized, for example, has moved back in that direction with the Tarmac SL7 that’s designed to provide both light weight and aero efficiency).
“This is a bike that is perfect for every type of rider and every terrain, because real-world riders aren’t specialised,” says Pinarello. “You need a bike that can climb and descend with equal flair, attack every corner and make every watt count on the finishing straight. The Dogma F is designed to do just that, no matter the circumstances.”
Pinarello says that when designing the Dogma F its priority was on handling rather than shedding weight.
“Yes, the complete Dogma F Disc frame kit is 11% lighter than the F12, but that is a result of our R&D team’s commitment to innovation and new production methods such as 3D-printed titanium componentry,” says Pinarello.
“Close attention has been paid to the seatpost, headset, fork, and the Talon cockpit, resulting in a saving of 265g compared to the Dogma F12, while also being 12% stiffer around the bottom bracket, with improved aerodynamics providing significant watt savings.”
Pinarello says that it designed the updated Onda fork from scratch twice, in the sense that it had to develop both rim brake and disc brake versions. The brand says that it gave the two different versions of the Dogma F equal priority. The fork is said to be 16% lighter than previously, mainly due to new carbon fibre materials available.
The profile of the disc brake fork has been changed from that of the Dogma F12 to improve interaction with the front wheel.
“Drag is practically non-existent until the air has travelled halfway along the frame,” Pinarello says – which is quite a claim. We’d love to see the statistics that back it up.
“Thanks to innovation derived directly from the Bolide [Pinarello’s time trial bike], the blades of the new Onda fork actually act as sails that favour forward movement in crosswind conditions – an effect that is amplified as the wind gets stronger."
Pinarello says that the Dogma F benefits from a narrower seat tube (just 20mm wide at the top junction) and seatpost taking advantage of the UCI rules for 2021 reducing minimum tube width, and that new down tube cross-sections improve aerodynamics.
The seatstays use new cross-sections designed to improve airflow with the rear wheel, and they are lowered (they meet the seat tube lower than on the Dogma F12), especially on the disc version, to reduce frontal area.
“The 15mm clockwise rotation of seatstays increases the bottom bracket stiffness to compensate the loss from the reduction of the seat tube width for the aero and lightweight seatpost,” says Pinarello.
The frame takes 1 1/2in headset bearings and a threaded bottom bracket. It’s built for electronic groupsets only and you still get two different positions for the second bottle cage. The maximum tyre width you can use on either the disc brake or rim brake version is 28mm, whereas many other recently launched road bikes allow for wider tyres.
“Every detail of the Dogma F has been refined for improved airflow, from the improved front fork section that cuts through the air to the new rear triangle that channels airflow harmoniously out the back, making it 4.8% more aerodynamic in the disc version compared to the Dogma F12.”
Pinarello says that compared with the Dogma F12, the Dogma F saves the equivalent of 1.3 watts at 40 km/h (25mph) and 2.6 watts at 50 km/h (31mph).
Interestingly, Pinarello says that the disc brake version of the Dogma F has lower drag than the rim brake model – 7.3% lower if you consider just the frame and fork. The difference is far less dramatic when you take the complete bike plus the rider into account; in those circumstances, the disc system has an advantage of just 0.2%.
As previously, Pinarello uses TORAYCA T1100 1K carbon with Nanoalloy Technology for the Dogma F. According to Japanese manufacturer Toray, “Nanoalloy technology is an innovative microstructure control technology… that can bring about dramatic improvement in characteristics compared to existing materials by minutely dispersing multiple polymers on a nano-metric scale.
The technology enables high performance and functionality in polymers which could not be achieved in conventional alloys of micron-metric scale (one-millionth of a metre).”
Pinarello has stuck with the principle of asymmetric frame production here on the basis that the two sides experience different forces. Pinarello modifies tube profiles and adds reinforcing carbon to take account of the drivetrain’s positioning.
Pinarello says that the seatpost design has been modified to reduce weight and drag (down by 30% compared with the Dogma F12). The clamp is now made from Selective
Laser Melting (SLM) titanium to drop the weight further.
The Talon Ultra handlebar is said to be the same shape as previously but 13% lighter and just as stiff thanks to a new carbon layup.
Pinarello offers the Dogma F in 11 frame sizes with 16 handlebar widths and two options for seatpost setback.
Pinarello claims a raw (unpainted) frame weight of 865g (size 53). It says that a built-up disc brake version of the Dogma F is about at the UCI’s 6.8kg minimum weight limit for racing. The Dogma F Disc (size 53, no pedals or bottle cages) built with a Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 (9100) groupset and DT Swiss ARC1400 wheels is said to be 6.8kg (no pedals) while a SRAM Red eTap AXS build with DT Swiss ARC1400 has a claimed weight of 6.9kg. A rim brake version of a similar level would be below the UCI's weight limit.
The Dogma F will be raced by Team Ineos in the Tour de France. They’ll almost certainly use the rim brake version; Geraint Thomas and Tao Geoghegan Hart were using rim brakes in the pics supplied by Pinarello. It’ll be interesting to see if any riders opt for discs.
Availability
The Dogma F will be available from September in three colourways from a range of 20 launch retailers in the UK, including Pinarello's London and Manchester stores. The frameset will be available from December, with custom MyWay orders beginning in January 2022.
Prices
Frameset (rim and disc versions) £5,400
Dogma F Dura-Ace Di2 groupset, MOST Ultrafast 40 Carbon Wheelset £11,000
Dogma F SRAM RED e-tap groupset, DT Swiss ARC 50 Carbon Wheelset £12,000
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Mat has been in cycling media since 1996, on titles including BikeRadar, Total Bike, Total Mountain Bike, What Mountain Bike and Mountain Biking UK, and he has been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. Mat has been road.cc technical editor for over a decade, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer. Now over 50, he's riding road and gravel bikes most days for fun and fitness rather than training for competitions.
I've got a very expensive Colnago. I've also got lots of very expensive kit too. I can guarantee you I'd drop you like a stone on ANY climb. Jog on you snobby wee shite.
Care to put a wager on it or put some power:weight numbers to back up your claim?
I'm not sure I've seen you riding (not that I'd know but I'd assume I probably haven't) so not sure why you're getting so upset - perhaps you'd like some vinegar for that chip on your shoulder?
Also - there's an irony at being called snobby for saying I don't like pretentious Italian super bikes with annoyingly contrarian bottom brackets!
Edit - to add - imagine having a "very expensive Colnago" and "lots of very expensive kit" and being this upset/ angry still because someone says they don't really like your bike and that people who ride a completely different bike typically look like they're a bad joke. Apparently expensive Italian bikes don't make people happy!
I really don't get the fuss about Pinarello (or Colnago) really - I'm not sure I can get past the fact the people I see riding Dogma's are such a cliche of all the gear and no idea that even a comedian would think you'd taken the mamil piss take joke too far.
I did see one guy though when we were riding in the Black Mountains a couple of years back, as we approached a traffic light he was waiting to go in the other direction, I muttered to Mrs H ill-naturedly, "Would you look at that muppet, full Sky replica kit! Oh my God, look, he's even got a Dogma in Sky colours! What a loser!" To which the better half replied, "I think that's Luke Rowe, isn't it?" "Oh. Yeah. Well I'll give him a pass then…"
Much the same happened to me quite a few years ago although in my case I was actually on my bike when some FKW shot past me like a bullit up a hill and disappeared into the distance just as I realised it was Ian Stannard.
I was riding near Chelford in Cheshire when I saw two cyclists in full team GB kit riding towards me. Shamefully i thought 'who do these two think they are' as they got closer I noticed the bloke was a bit of a unit...it was Jason and Laura Kenny. I hung my head in shame as we passed.
Box Hill three or four years ago, passed by a couple on top notch bikes both wearing GB kit, they were chatting casually as they breezed past the sweating fat lad, got to the cafe at the top, chap who had been just in front of me said "Did you see 'em?" "Who?" "Jason Kenny and Laura Trott man!" Apparently they had come down for SPOTY the night before...still only have that guy's word that it was them but if it was I can cope with being taken by a couple with multiple Olympic golds...
I'm not a Pinarello fanboy, I'm more of a Colnago man but this new Dogma F has caught me eye. The F8 was heavy and the disc version was an afterthought. The F10 looked perfect, smooth lines like the F8 but more appealing and slightly lighter. The F12 offended mine eyes with the ugly angular looks. It's was still weighty too. This looks like the Dogma F series has matured nicely. Good to see a weight drop but those prices for a fully built bike are ridiculous.
I'm sure if you'd got the frameset capsule you could build it cheaper than that.
I thought the main reason Ineos use the rim brake version is quicker and easier wheel swaps? If that's the case I doubt they'll be using the disc brake version anytime soon.
I thought the main reason Ineos use the rim brake version is quicker and easier wheel swaps? If that's the case I doubt they'll be using the disc brake version anytime soon.
Yes, I agree and also surely they all either use rim brakes or all of the team swap over to discs, not some one one type and some on another.
That's quite a lot weight difference as well (considering it was already a top of the range/light frame beforehand). The aero difference is hard to quantify and you sort of have to take their word for it. Also cool that the disc version is actually more aero.
I know it's like their signature style but I still don't like those wavy forks. I'd obviously swap it for my Canyon though!
I thought the main reason Ineos use the rim brake version is quicker and easier wheel swaps? If that's the case I doubt they'll be using the disc brake version anytime soon.
Yea but if you actually think about that explanation it doesnt make sense.
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43 comments
Care to put a wager on it or put some power:weight numbers to back up your claim?
I'm not sure I've seen you riding (not that I'd know but I'd assume I probably haven't) so not sure why you're getting so upset - perhaps you'd like some vinegar for that chip on your shoulder?
Also - there's an irony at being called snobby for saying I don't like pretentious Italian super bikes with annoyingly contrarian bottom brackets!
Edit - to add - imagine having a "very expensive Colnago" and "lots of very expensive kit" and being this upset/ angry still because someone says they don't really like your bike and that people who ride a completely different bike typically look like they're a bad joke. Apparently expensive Italian bikes don't make people happy!
I did see one guy though when we were riding in the Black Mountains a couple of years back, as we approached a traffic light he was waiting to go in the other direction, I muttered to Mrs H ill-naturedly, "Would you look at that muppet, full Sky replica kit! Oh my God, look, he's even got a Dogma in Sky colours! What a loser!" To which the better half replied, "I think that's Luke Rowe, isn't it?" "Oh. Yeah. Well I'll give him a pass then…"
Much the same happened to me quite a few years ago although in my case I was actually on my bike when some FKW shot past me like a bullit up a hill and disappeared into the distance just as I realised it was Ian Stannard.
I was riding near Chelford in Cheshire when I saw two cyclists in full team GB kit riding towards me. Shamefully i thought 'who do these two think they are' as they got closer I noticed the bloke was a bit of a unit...it was Jason and Laura Kenny. I hung my head in shame as we passed.
Box Hill three or four years ago, passed by a couple on top notch bikes both wearing GB kit, they were chatting casually as they breezed past the sweating fat lad, got to the cafe at the top, chap who had been just in front of me said "Did you see 'em?" "Who?" "Jason Kenny and Laura Trott man!" Apparently they had come down for SPOTY the night before...still only have that guy's word that it was them but if it was I can cope with being taken by a couple with multiple Olympic golds...
I'm not a Pinarello fanboy, I'm more of a Colnago man but this new Dogma F has caught me eye. The F8 was heavy and the disc version was an afterthought. The F10 looked perfect, smooth lines like the F8 but more appealing and slightly lighter. The F12 offended mine eyes with the ugly angular looks. It's was still weighty too. This looks like the Dogma F series has matured nicely. Good to see a weight drop but those prices for a fully built bike are ridiculous.
I'm sure if you'd got the frameset capsule you could build it cheaper than that.
"The difference is far less dramatic when you" put the disc brake rotors on the wheels
Surely they test the aerodynamics with wheels and discs in place? Would it not be a waste of time otherwise?
It's the rotors that are the difference, aerodynamic abominations that they are!
I thought the main reason Ineos use the rim brake version is quicker and easier wheel swaps? If that's the case I doubt they'll be using the disc brake version anytime soon.
Yes, I agree and also surely they all either use rim brakes or all of the team swap over to discs, not some one one type and some on another.
That's quite a lot weight difference as well (considering it was already a top of the range/light frame beforehand). The aero difference is hard to quantify and you sort of have to take their word for it. Also cool that the disc version is actually more aero.
I know it's like their signature style but I still don't like those wavy forks. I'd obviously swap it for my Canyon though!
Yea but if you actually think about that explanation it doesnt make sense.
Want. Cannot afford in this lifetime.
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