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Spring Classics 2015
The next major competition I am looking at getting organised for is the Spring Classics 2015. I would also like to get some prizes organised for a mini-league if it is still possible to run a standard mini-league competition.
Is anyone able to tell me how the Spring Classics will run this year?
For example:
- Will they be the same 12 races as last year, which will mean Omloop Het Nieuwsblad will be first on 22nd Feb ... that's less than a month away.
- Will it be possible for players to run a mini-league for this with just standard scoring on its own, i.e. not standard + purist + whatever scores all added together as aggregate league "scores".
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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If you're going to do that, I'd ask for 8 transfers, if it's 8 rider teams, or 9 transfers, if it's 9 rider teams, just because I think it's fair to do a complete overhaul from the Cobbbled races to the Ardennes Classics... looking at the races as two groups, Cobbled Races vs. Ardennes Classics, only the following riders scored at least 1 point in both groups of races:
.
Bjorn Leukemans
Tony Gallopin
Dries Devenyns
I honestly think the transition from the Cobbled Classics to the Ardennes merits a full reboot of one's team. And, if you ask me, I'd offer at least 4 transfers between races, just because of the sheer magnitude of roster changes, the different teams in each race, the inclement weather, our collective ineptitude at putting together decent teams and, of course, the life threatening, season ending or career ending crashes these riders are exposed to in these races... We do have to protect our riders, you know?...
I would split Ardennes as a separate competition. With the new transfer rules you are going to get new (and old) players rinsing their transfers by Paris Roubaix giving them no interest in some of the best races of the year, losing interest in the game which you may not get back before TDF. Also by splitting the two there can be a proper purist competition going on.
Secondly - Strade Bianche - It's the best race of the year, it's not got the proper Etixx cobble team or Sep playing and wouldn't fit in a big Belgian comp. Could this be a stand-alone race like Clasica San Sebastian. On similar lines there is an argument to treat MSR the same,
Limiting the spring classics to a more Belgian-specific competition could add Dwars door Vlaanderen to the game.
Agree. There is not much crossover in some of these races like scheldeprij and Ronde etc
Equally im not saying all ive said is correct, personally I like a challenge, and I like to plan.
I was also saying that although hypothetical, the scenario of how it may work is how I believe it will be run (unless Dave decides to run it with unlimited transfers between each so called stage) however after implementing the new transfer method as bundle I do not think it will be run with unlimited
Well, I began all this discussion and it is because I think there is another reason. Not that it is too easy, but that it is boring. The classics were boring last year simply because it was not a competition, but a string of competitions (each race was a competition in its own right) with a single points total (which only gave the illusion that it was just one competition). Granted, that I found it boring is a subjective judgement, but that is why I asked your opinions on the forum.
Personally, I think picking a team should commit you in the long run, and not just for the stage you pick it for. Otherwise there is no planning involved and it is, I find, no fun. I repeat, for me this is not about who is right and who is wrong, but about what is more fun.
(That being said, I think Nix makes a good point that players less familiar with it all might feel lost in the versions of the game that I find to be fun.)
I understand, but (!) I have little sympathy for you (
)... According to my handy dandy spreadsheet, there were 334 different riders that partook in the 'Cobbled Classics' - which I conveniently labeled OML, KBK, E3, GW, FLA, and PRB - Are they all cobbled? What do I know? - 
- Anyways, that's quite a bit more riders to choose from than a GT... I think it's mindblowing to limit transfers for these races myself... but ... for everyone's benefit here's a list of the riders that rode all 6 of these races last year...
.
Sep Vanmarcke Belkin Pro Cycling Team
Tom Boonen Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team
Greg Van Avermaet BMC Racing Team
Sebastian Langeveld Garmin Sharp
Edvald Boasson Hagen Team Sky
Jean-Pierre Drucker Wanty - Groupe Gobert
Maarten Wynants Belkin Pro Cycling Team
Guillaume Van Keirsbulck Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team
Tyler Farrar Garmin Sharp
Egoitz Garcia Cofidis, Solutions Credits
Luke Rowe Team Sky
Florian Senechal Cofidis, Solutions Credits
Bernhard Eisel Team Sky
Luca Paolini Team Katusha
Lloyd Mondory AG2R La Mondiale
Sebastien Turgot AG2R La Mondiale
Cyril Lemoine Cofidis, Solutions Credits
Jelle Wallays Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise
Reinardt Janse Van Rensburg Team Giant-Shimano
Yoann Offredo FDJ.fr
Gert Joeaar Cofidis, Solutions Credits
Adrien Petit Cofidis, Solutions Credits
Bram Tankink Belkin Pro Cycling Team
Koen De Kort Team Giant-Shimano
Vladimir Isaychev Team Katusha
Tim Declercq Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise
Lars Ytting Bak Lotto Belisol
Mirko Selvaggi Wanty - Groupe Gobert
Silvan Dillier BMC Racing Team
Alexandre Pichot Team Europcar
Maarten Tjallingii Belkin Pro Cycling Team
Christian Knees Team Sky
Raymond Kreder Garmin Sharp
Salvatore Puccio Team Sky
Damien Gaudin AG2R La Mondiale
David Boucher FDJ.fr
Jens Debusschere Lotto Belisol
Mickael Delage FDJ.fr
Aleksejs Saramotins IAM Cycling
,
I basically agree with Nix:
But (!) to cater to you, I would run a forum competition awarding you 10 points for every unused transfer you have left, under TER's (hopefully) hypothetical situation above, at the end of the competition!
Last year was an exception for trades, it was trialled without trades, and previously had trades.
It was too easy last year with trades between each race.
I believe there will be trades this year and no unlimited transfers between stages, which is another reason transfers are being given as a total for the whole competition, use them as you wish, use strategy and plan.
Your argument for making it easier for those who know less doesn't always work either as you make it too less of a challenge for keen follows then they stop playing as its too easy
The game has always had limits in one form or another and to say that having 25 transfers for 7 stages is comparable to the podium cafe game is not really fair. Past experience suggests that startlists between the first for 4 races I have listed and the 2nd 3 races do not change dramatically and thus is not a big guess. 25 is already a complete squad change more than you would get for a GT and there compensates (imo anyway) for any unforced startlist changes etc. I can guarantee if you split the classics in two sections you will get far less trades
My recollection is the Spring Classics had unlimited trades last year from race to race ... i.e. no limit.
Players who want to do less trades, e.g. 25 trades, can do so under an unlimited trade scenario. No one is forcing them to trade more if they don't want to.
I still haven't seen any argument as to why players who do want to trade more, even start from scratch again and change their whole squad from race to race in the classics, should be restricted from doing so.
This is an issue in most fantasy games for all sports I am aware of. Players who regularly finish up the top wanting to make the game more restrictive. But more trades = more engagement = more website hits = easier to attract new players = a growing game = better prizes.
In Australia the Classics aren't followed much except by very keen cycling fans, interest is a lot less than for Grand Tours. Last year was the first year that a few were shown on live free to air TV. So this year I was hoping to attract more interest by running a classics comp. However, having trade restrictions makes the game more of a turn-off for players who don't know much about the classics in the first place.
Experienced players are not disadvantaged in any way by a game that has more trades, they just have less of an advantage. However, inexperienced players have a big disadvantage in games with less trades because they get punished more for a wrong choice .. and newer players make more wrong choices.
I basically agree with Nix...
.
I know you're right but there's something really funky about this competition, namely what Nix pointed out, that:
1. Different teams are invited to different races
2. Teams swap out their riders at will
It feels weird to have to plan on certain riders being there for some of the competition and not another, especially the support riders, and have a limit on transfers when the rosters change so much from race to race.
I think most people didn't mind having unlimited transfers between the races and currently prefer having unlimited transfers or something like 6 transfers available between stages rather than planning on using only 2 between races... I'd be surprised if a majority of the players favored very limited transfers... I think offering unlimited transfers or something like 6 between races makes it reasonable, manageable and fun...
.
I don't think so... I can't imagine anyone would stop playing because we had too many transfers available for this competition... In a GT? Yes, this one? I don't think so. I just wonder if there are other players that support your notion that restricting the transfers 'ruins' the game by making it 'too easy'. That, to me , is a poor reason to resort to limiting transfers...
.
I hope not... Unnecesary stress, if you ask me...
To sum it up, I agree with Nix...
Why not? Except for TER's argument it makes it too easy, is there any other reason to restrict the transfers?...
However, in a 3 week grand tour:
- the event organiser can't decide to invite different teams to each stage,
- the team DS can't decide to interchange riders for each stage from a bench of about 30 riders.
Trades shouldn't have to be used to compensate for changes in startlists.
If people want to play a purist of podium cafe type game where they are effectively guessing startlists they can play purist. Why try to force a limit in the trades in the standard game?
Splitting it into 2 groups seems the most sensible approach. I dont have a problem with say 20 transfers over each part, yes luck does come into it, but so does a lot of effort finding out about the riders, the course and probably the bit where i fall down a lot, the final km.
Just look at Dubai, flat as a pancake yet the last 200m is 17% on todays stage.
The less transfers you have the more luck becomes a factor .. simple as that.
Limiting transfers doesn't make sense when teams don't have to announce their riders for all the races before the first 1 and then keep the same riders for all 10 or so Spring Classics over 2 months.
True, but if the same races remain in one competition like last year, the transition from Paris-Roubaix to Amstel will really hurt, transfer-wise
But if there were 7 stages, 20 transfers would be plenty to account for a change.
you would effectively have 2 between the stages of same type = 10 + 10 to account for the transition, so Im not sure on the problem
eg san remo - 2 - Gent - 2 - Ronde - 2 - Roubaix - 10 - Amstel - 2 - fleche - 2 - Liege.
Obviously with the way the transfers are you can use them how you wish, so for just those 7 I think 20 or 25 max would be suitable for transfer amounts. If more races are included then increase the transfers sufficiently. At the end of the day for a grand tour of 21 stages with just as much variety will only see you have 50 or 60 transfers, 25 would be plenty for 7 stages
You're right (well, in grand tours there are GC points available, and that changes things a bit, because you can keep, say, the leader of the race even for a sprint stage; but that's a technicality, of course).
I'm just not sure it would make too much sense to allow enough transfers so that most players could make an entire team makeover between cobbles and Ardennes. In that case, it might make more sense to have unlimited transfers just between Roubaix and Amstel, for example, and limit the number of transfers before and after... I think we had something like this a few years back, actually...
There was an idea on the forum last year to break the calssics into 2 separate competitions (to separate the cobbled(ish) ones and the Ardennes ones) and therefore to eliminate the unlimited-transfers-for-each-race rule. I liked it, 'cause I think it would make things a lot more interesting. What do you think about this?
unlimited transfers can be eliminated now anyway, so for example we may have 20 transfers for the 6 stages etc
No, we only covered the women's world cup last year and started in plenty of time.
I have no idea what is happening this year with the women's nor the spring classics.
The game is getting over complicated for me and the back end isn't very easy either, plus my time is slowly getting taken up by various work. So I doubt I'll be running a women's cup this year
Thats a shame no womens comp, i was hoping to be shite at both the mens and womens races.
I've had a bit to do with processing stats for fantasy games and I appreciate what is going on behind the interface to make the game work, and am grateful for your efforts.
I'd be happy to help you sort out some stuff to alleviate some of the workload that is being done by only a few guys at the moment. I think a lot of users would be happy to help out - many people who are attracted to play fantasy sports have experience in IT and number crunching.
The Omloop is on the 28th this year.
Correct, thanks
TheDoctor is absolutely correct!
Don't forget there is no Strade Bianche this year
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