Hate crime against cyclist and neigbours

kraut wrote:

HalfWheeler wrote:

I'm pretty sure anti-cycling trolls aren't using the argument; public shaming hasn't made the roads any safer for us cyclists. 

You might care to reflect on that.

 

Indeed. The public shaming is only necessary because the police so often fail to prosecute despite the evidence.

Ah vigilantism!

We can all see the negative consequences of acting as a vigilante in this very article! (poor mr Magnatom).

And we all condemn the 'vigilantism' of those persecuting him and his neighbours because they see him as a menace.

Yet you still can't see how utterly unproductive it is,  to be so confrontational!

I do dispair.. 

kraut wrote:

HalfWheeler wrote:

I'm pretty sure anti-cycling trolls aren't using the argument; public shaming hasn't made the roads any safer for us cyclists. 

You might care to reflect on that.

 

Indeed. The public shaming is only necessary because the police so often fail to prosecute despite the evidence.

This seems to suggest that public shaming and police prosecutions are somehow equivalents - I am tempted to agree insofar as they are both negative reiforcements which seem to have very little effect on actually changing behaviour and attitudes.

beezus fufoon wrote:

+1 to Flying Scot and HalfWheeler

seeing so many youtube vids, it seems that when people get a cam there is a temptation to go looking for trouble and highlighting the smallest non-incident - if I had one single ride with such a lack of trouble I'd consider it one of my safer rides!

If that's your attitude, then - and I find it hard to state how non-judgementally I am trying to say this - you deserve everything you get on the road.

Seriously.  What you won't take effort to change is exactly what you deserve.

nuclear coffee wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

+1 to Flying Scot and HalfWheeler

seeing so many youtube vids, it seems that when people get a cam there is a temptation to go looking for trouble and highlighting the smallest non-incident - if I had one single ride with such a lack of trouble I'd consider it one of my safer rides!

 

If that's your attitude, then - and I find it hard to state how non-judgementally I am trying to say this - you deserve everything you get on the road.

 

Seriously.  What you won't take effort to change is exactly what you deserve.

quite right - I do get what I deserve - which is a very different attitude to going around blaming everyone else.

two things I perceive I will not change by cycling - infrastructure, and the general attitude found in the u.k. - in most European countries, the majority of pedestrians actually wait at crossings until the signal changes, even if the road is clear - people accept and follow the rules, whereas in the U.K. we seem to prefer to engage in a struggle for dominance - which is exactly what youtube cyclecam posters are actually doing by trying to punish others by shaming them, and exactly what drivers are doing by punishment passes...

- maybe I'm a bit strange, but I actually enjoy my rides and feel no need to try to change the world with some kind of angsty adolescent directionless idealism - I have no doubt that many road users believe it is oh so unfair and that some authority (father figure) should change things to make it fairer for them in order to lessen their frustration - I even know and support people who do campaign for positive changes and actually make an input into possible improvements - this is certainly not achieved by promoting a concept of social justice which involves one individual exacting their own personal punishments on another individual - it doesn't even make them happy or seem to do anything to lessen their niggling frustrations, it only seems to fuel the fire of the very system they are complaining about.

HalfWheeler wrote:

I agree Flying Scot on this one.

I've always thought Magnatom's 'efforts' were counterproductive. From internet 'debates' with him in the past I get the impression he thinks that, in the long run, the majority of bad drivers' behaviour will change because of his videoing and he'll be responsible for it. There's an element of delusion in this.  75% of the population hold driving liceneces. For the Greater Glasgow area that's 900,000. Lets say 5% are close passers or aggressive drivers in other ways. That's 45,000 anti-social and dangerous drivers. Is he going to video and prosecute them all one by one?

There's also a whiff of self-important, self-appointed sanctimony about it as well. Although you can't level those charges at him. He's deep in bunker mentality and he's not coming out. When challenged about his m.o he's responded with "well, what have you ever acheived by cycling". So you have to achieve some sort of ethical or moral objective by going out on your bike now? Pompous twaddle.

Flying Scot is also correct about the local roadies attitude to him; ambivalent at best but more often than not highly critical. They think he's a liability. 

None of this excuses the abuse/attacks on his person, property and now neighbours. This is how public debate is now carried out. It doesn't bode well for the future.

It is hard to understand why you think highlighting bad driving using a cycle camera is 'counterproductive'. It is merely clear and objective evidence of the problems vulnerable road users are forced to endure when sharing the road with bad drivers. The object of this evidence is to attempt to ensure the police take action and that the authorities understand the urgent need for safe and convenient cycling infrastructure. The situation at the moment means that most people are too scared to cycle resulting in over-reliance on motor vehicles, which is a problem for everyone. Your ad hominem attacks are extremely distasteful.

Fifth Gear wrote:

Your ad hominem attacks are extremely distasteful.

criticising someone's behaviour as self-righteous does not constitute an ad hominem attack

beezus fufoon wrote:

Fifth Gear wrote:

Your ad hominem attacks are extremely distasteful.

criticising someone's behaviour as self-righteous does not constitute an ad hominem attack

Willo - is that you??

brooksby wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Fifth Gear wrote:

Your ad hominem attacks are extremely distasteful.

criticising someone's behaviour as self-righteous does not constitute an ad hominem attack

Willo - is that you??

No, just someone who knows what ad-hom means :p

beezus fufoon wrote:

brooksby wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Fifth Gear wrote:

Your ad hominem attacks are extremely distasteful.

criticising someone's behaviour as self-righteous does not constitute an ad hominem attack

Willo - is that you??

No, just someone who knows what ad-hom means :p

OK, I stand corrected  

Flying Scot wrote:

I doubt this has anything to do with the Bearsway project (in East Dunbartonshire) which is mainly opposed by middle class NIMBY types, its a project that I am neutral on, as one, I don't use it, and secondly as with most of greater glasgow cycle infrastructure, its discontinuous.

Far more likely to be as the letter infers (yet another) reaction to  several years of sanctimonious noising up Neanderthal drivers, which, for 9 times out of 10 is for nothing, or simple mistakes.

Feel free to flame me for the next bit, and don't confuse the comments with as victim blaming, read it to the end.

This guy is not popular among the road going cycling  community in the Glasgow area either though, he has raised his profile so high with self publicity that he basically single handedly created the 'bloody cyclists' mentality in the area that affects all of us on the road as now all the nutters in motor vehicles see a them and us situation.

I do however fully condemn any one making these threats, he may at times deserve some verbal out on the road (as he meters out himself) when he over reacts, but no one deserves such threats against home, family or neighbours and against this, he has my full support and i hope the polis fully investigate and find the idiot responsible and that appropriate sentencing is applied and not a slap on the wrist.

If I recall too he already has had a brick through his window, which must be awful for the family.

I have seen his videos and the suggestion that they are for "nothing" or 'simple mistakes' is patently ridiculous. The 'bloody cyclists mentality' is endemic in our very motor-biased society and to blame a victim of it as being responsible for it is victim-blaming of the first order.