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Giro d’Italia

Thought i’d try an early post for some pre race thoughts...so i’ll Start..

https://www.cyclingstage.com/giro-2019-route/

Loving the last stage....for some of us  old timers it’s like Laurent Fignon all over again. Do we approve?..or do we like the procession and sprint?

 

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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261 comments

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MinardiM189 replied to Condor Andy | 5 years ago
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Condor Andy wrote:

stevemarks wrote:

Hi Folks Viviani appears to have scored 0 but is in fourth place i the sprints comp?

Am I missing something?

]

Where are you seeing this? I'm seeing Gaviria, Ackermann, Demare, Moschetti, Yates. I actually don't see Viviani's name anywhere in that jersey comp.

At one stage Viviani was 4th in the points classification with the 18 points he scored on Stage 2.

However it now appears that these points taken off him as an additional punishment.

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Condor Andy replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Dumoulin is starting today but I'm not sure he will go all the way to Verona now.

I don't think he'll finish today, he's apparently in a lot of discomfort on the bike and today might be a fast start.

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stevemarks replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Roglic saying tonight he would quite like a break to win tomorrow and ditch his jersey....he may well get his wish.

The last climb is harder than it looks but after that the route is quite easy. The top sprinters will probably get dropped on the climb, so it is a bit of a lottery who might win from a reduced sprint, if the group finishes first.

Certain teams will probably give Friday's stage priority.

I think it depends on how long the break takes to get away and who gets in the break.

If it takes a long time for the break to go, more teams might give a hand with the chase if they don't have a rider up front.

Historically the break doesn't win very often in the first week of the Giro, unless it is a GC day.

 

Strange few days now, didn't know what to do so just went safe, might be best to not tinker much until Sunday. Normally I'd use up transfers unnecessarily here. Can a safe button be installed on the game to stop me making transfers for a few days? lol

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MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
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Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

My team for today -

ROGLIC
YATES S.
LOPEZ
ULISSI
BATTAGLIN
CIMOLAI
MADOUAS
LONARDI

Pity they don't have live coverage on Eurosport there is a real battle to get in the break.

How many transfers Minardi?

Six transfers taking my total used to 12

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Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

I’m not sure but I think I may be on about 10 points....possibly less than if i’d Just left my sprinters in. Is there a Lanterne Rouge?

I'm slightly better than you as I had Madouas.

Hopefully Battaglin & Ulissi can do something tomorrow.

Leaving some sprinters in was the way to go today, they might get another chance on Saturday.

 

 

Not sure what to do with TDG now. Ewan has the same outside chance as today and TDG had the chance to go in the break....in the end they chose to nurse Ewan over TDG’s chances (to no avail)....Same again tomorrow?

Also. I’m quite certain Masnada was in that break for KOM competition along with Oomen...but what now?

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Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Fernando Gaviria abandons....damn...

In both your teams ?

Just Purist. Lost both of Dumoulin and Gaviria already. 

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Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

TDG giving up on the climb. 

I really don’t understand this race this year....what the hell is going on?

Would have been very difficult if not impossible for TDG  to win the satge with Formolo, McCarthy, Bilbao there. So I guess he decided to save his legs for tomorrow and helping Ewan in the sprint.

Formolo is going to be challenging for top5 this year. He is making up today what he will lose on Sunday.

Bilbao, Gallopin & Cattaneo gaining too.

 

All working out as you said Minardi. Jumbo letting riders back into the race is just a bit naive really. Riders like Formolo and Bilbao can make life difficult.

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Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
1 like

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Seldom ever seen a race like this. Jumbo being naive and Mitchelton Scott going too conservative...they may both pay for it.

Bilbao and Formolo let back in and now around the same time as the other GC boys after having distanced them in the opening TT is a big mistake. Love or loathe them I think it probably true that Team Sky (Inneos) would never have allowed that to happen...the Sky train would surely have shut the door on them...

Roglic and Yates have  thrown away any wiggle room inside two days....a crash, a puncture on the TT and any other number of things could really bite them now.

The race just got real again for some.

I'm not sure Sky are on the ball either, Sky should have been trying to get TGH or Sivakhov in the break today, not Seb Henao.

Dunbar said the aim today was to protect their GC riders, that was an opportunity lost.

Personally I think Mitchelton have become the polar opposite of the team they were last year. They seem to think they won the Vuelta by being ultra-cautious and think they can do the same here. At the Vuelta Yates didn't have much competition in the mountains and actually made up time on his rivals in the ITT. In this race he will lose time in the ITTs and in the mountains so playing cautious will not work.

I am surprised that teams like Bahrain, Trek, Jumbo, Katusha and others didn't work together to keep Fromolo & Bilbao closer. Today makes it more difficult for teams aiming for a top5 or top10 to realise the ambition when 2 rivals gain a minute unchallenged.

Tbh i’m Not sure if Sky actually know what their role is now in this race...not helped by Tao’s crash....I think we can be fairly certain that had Bernal/Thomas/Froome been enjoying a high placing with Roglic and Yates none of this would have happened. Why would you beat Bilbao/Formolo once and then put yourself in the position of having to beat them again...they’re good riders in good teams who can make life very difficult....Oomen as well. 

The bigger worry for them is that any rider...including Yates and Roglic are very capable of a bad day for no apparent reason...it just happens, and it could happen to them...as Yates well knows.

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MinardiM189 replied to stevemarks | 5 years ago
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stevemarks wrote:

Condor Andy wrote:

Glad it's not just me Steve, I had a dreadful first week. I should have saved transfers, only 16 left and my team looks like Minardi's with Rojas instead of Lonardi.

 

Yes I have Minardi's team with Nibali instead of Lonardi. Was thinking of bringing in Peters but couldn't really establish if it was worth the extra transfer.

Peters should score 13 in both the next two stages, in stage 12 I think he will drop out of top10 in GC and possibly lose the White Jersey. So he will probably score about 30 points total but you will need to replace him later, so it will cost 2 transfers. Probably not worth it , especially as you haven't many transfers left.

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MinardiM189 replied to Condor Andy | 5 years ago
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Condor Andy wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Dear oh dear....missed the deadline again by a distance. Did Ackermann even start?

I’m making a right mess of this one. 

Yeah, he started. Not in a good way though, we'll see how he fares later on. I judged it wasn't worth a transfer so I've stuck with my team. Moschetti didn't start though, so that's one down for me.

No idea what to do for tomorrow. I might wait until Friday to make my changes.

Trek announced Moschetti wasn't starting yesterday evening, I saw it on their Twitter feed.

Tomorrow could well be another crazy stage, all sorts of riders going for the break. UAE won't be able to control it again. Quite likely we will see someone new in Pink.

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stevemarks replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

Condor Andy wrote:

Which makes it super hard to call. This could end up being a really interesting stage. The climb near the end, whilst short, is really steep, and cobbled. I'd love to see some late attacks go over that one.

I've just had a look at 6 transfers I could make that would set me up nicely. Then I would just make a few changes to grab in some KOM chasers and GC men and call it a day. I might limit it to 3 or 4 for tomorrow though just to be on the safe side.

That was Viviani's last stage along with Ewan, so that frees up 2 places.

I'll probably make 6 or 7 transfers but then I have a lot remianing.

I'm really restricted on transfers so bought Roglic in today and only need 3/4 for Friday/tomorrow, but that's the 64 m dlr question?

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Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Don’t understand this Giro at all. What on earth is going on? No problem with a big break today...almost expected...but 14 mins?

GC riders....what on earth are they doing?

This is exactly what I expected today although I didn't anticipate Polanc being in the break.

It was always going to be a came of call my bluff with the GC teams. At some stage I hope Mitchelton Scott have to chase and nobody does anything to help them.

 

Polanc is a very big surprise....as is the time thay’ve given him. What I don’t understand is why the peleton din’t just close the door at about 6 minutes. They seem he’ll bent on making things difficult for themselves like when they let Bilbao and Formolo go.

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
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Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

So what is the plan for UAE tomorrow ? Send Conti in the break ?

Don’t see why not. Every chance they’ll give him 5 minutes again...

How do you rate Majka’s current chances Minardi?...looked good today but i’ve been here before.

I wouldn't base too much on today, tomorrow is a much sterner test.

I can't see Hugh Carthy hanging on to white for long, I think Lopez will get it tomorrow.

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Condor Andy replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
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MinardiM189 wrote:

At one stage Viviani was 4th in the points classification with the 18 points he scored on Stage 2.

However it now appears that these points taken off him as an additional punishment.

That's what I'm assuming too, but I was trying to find confirmation of his punishment.

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to stevemarks | 5 years ago
0 likes

stevemarks wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Roglic saying tonight he would quite like a break to win tomorrow and ditch his jersey....he may well get his wish.

The last climb is harder than it looks but after that the route is quite easy. The top sprinters will probably get dropped on the climb, so it is a bit of a lottery who might win from a reduced sprint, if the group finishes first.

Certain teams will probably give Friday's stage priority.

I think it depends on how long the break takes to get away and who gets in the break.

If it takes a long time for the break to go, more teams might give a hand with the chase if they don't have a rider up front.

Historically the break doesn't win very often in the first week of the Giro, unless it is a GC day.

 

Strange few days now, didn't know what to do so just went safe, might be best to not tinker much until Sunday. Normally I'd use up transfers unnecessarily here. Can a safe button be installed on the game to stop me making transfers for a few days? lol

I take it you got Ulissi ?....If he and his team have heard Roglic’s comments you can be fairly certain he’ll go for pink and stage together if it’s a late break. That would be a major achievement for him and them and suit the peleton nicely.

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

My team for today -

ROGLIC
YATES S.
LOPEZ
ULISSI
BATTAGLIN
CIMOLAI
MADOUAS
LONARDI

Pity they don't have live coverage on Eurosport there is a real battle to get in the break.

How many transfers Minardi?

Six transfers taking my total used to 12

I’m only on 11. I haven’t liked the look of today and tomorrow for some time. Prepared to fall a bit and save the transfers for a better day. Oomen is interesting me in that breakaway. Oomen Ciccone could be the two KOM picks to get soon. Tomorrow will tell us if TDG is interested or not.

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
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Dr Winston wrote:

All working out as you said Minardi. Jumbo letting riders back into the race is just a bit naive really. Riders like Formolo and Bilbao can make life difficult.

Formolo messed up there he should have ridden for time not to win the stage. He probably threw away 30s and didn't win anyway.

Can you see why I picked Madous ? He can go in the break and also has a good finish in tough stages, so less a shot in the dark than others.

Battaglin was a bad pick, the team have him protecting Zakarin so he is only free once Zakarin is safe.

Ulissi turned out to be a bad pick.

I used another transfer today bring Conti in for Lopez, at least he should pick up 10 points for the next 3 or 4 stages. Although Lopez got 10 today angry

Avatar
stevemarks replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

stevemarks wrote:

Condor Andy wrote:

Glad it's not just me Steve, I had a dreadful first week. I should have saved transfers, only 16 left and my team looks like Minardi's with Rojas instead of Lonardi.

 

Yes I have Minardi's team with Nibali instead of Lonardi. Was thinking of bringing in Peters but couldn't really establish if it was worth the extra transfer.

Peters should score 13 in both the next two stages, in stage 12 I think he will drop out of top10 in GC and possibly lose the White Jersey. So he will probably score about 30 points total but you will need to replace him later, so it will cost 2 transfers. Probably not worth it , especially as you haven't many transfers left.

Thank you very much, I wondered if he might pick up some stage points too, but the likelyhood of Nibali doing so seemed greater.

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Condor Andy replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Quite likely we will see someone new in Pink.

But WHO?? That is the question. One of the outside guys who's in the top 20? Carboni? Madouas? Masnada? How are the peloton going to race it? We saw the same kind of racing at the Vuelta last year on stages 5 and 12. Almost identical to this race. Huge gamble to put someone in who might do well, but what have I got to lose at this point?

I could just make 2 transfers a day for a while, building the best team for the final few days.

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
0 likes

Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Don’t understand this Giro at all. What on earth is going on? No problem with a big break today...almost expected...but 14 mins?

GC riders....what on earth are they doing?

This is exactly what I expected today although I didn't anticipate Polanc being in the break.

It was always going to be a came of call my bluff with the GC teams. At some stage I hope Mitchelton Scott have to chase and nobody does anything to help them.

 

Polanc is a very big surprise....as is the time thay’ve given him. What I don’t understand is why the peleton din’t just close the door at about 6 minutes. They seem he’ll bent on making things difficult for themselves like when they let Bilbao and Formolo go.

None of the GC teams want to work.

If it wasn't for Trek helping out UAE Formolo & Bilbao would have gained even more time.

I think Mitcehelton cause the problem by completely refusing to work.

At some stage I can see someone gaining a hell of a lot of time and no-one doing anything about it.

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

So what is the plan for UAE tomorrow ? Send Conti in the break ?

Don’t see why not. Every chance they’ll give him 5 minutes again...

How do you rate Majka’s current chances Minardi?...looked good today but i’ve been here before.

I wouldn't base too much on today, tomorrow is a much sterner test.

I can't see Hugh Carthy hanging on to white for long, I think Lopez will get it tomorrow.

Lopez for certain will get it. I fancy Carthy to do something of a Zakarin for us.....two reasonable pts scorers right there. I like a Majka but at some point these next couple of days the hammer goes down from Lopez and co and i’m just not sure what happens then with him.

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Sniffer replied to Condor Andy | 5 years ago
0 likes

Condor Andy wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

At one stage Viviani was 4th in the points classification with the 18 points he scored on Stage 2.

However it now appears that these points taken off him as an additional punishment.

That's what I'm assuming too, but I was trying to find confirmation of his punishment.

I think he will be on minus points

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-ditalia-viviani-unrepentant-after-s...

 

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
0 likes

Dr Winston wrote:

I’m only on 11. I haven’t liked the look of today and tomorrow for some time. Prepared to fall a bit and save the transfers for a better day. Oomen is interesting me in that breakaway. Oomen Ciccone could be the two KOM picks to get soon. Tomorrow will tell us if TDG is interested or not.

I don't think tomorrow will be a day for the break.

The uphill finish is a good fit for a number of riders - Ulissi, Battaglin, Vuillermoz, Gallopin, Gasparotto, etc.

I'm not sure what to expect on Stage 8.

The 3km to go is near the bottom of a descent (I'm not even sure they have the 3km rule on *** stages) so it will be chaos leading up to the hill and on the descent. A good stage for a late attack maybe.

 

 

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

All working out as you said Minardi. Jumbo letting riders back into the race is just a bit naive really. Riders like Formolo and Bilbao can make life difficult.

Formolo messed up there he should have ridden for time not to win the stage. He probably threw away 30s and didn't win anyway.

Can you see why I picked Madous ? He can go in the break and also has a good finish in tough stages, so less a shot in the dark than others.

Battaglin was a bad pick, the team have him protecting Zakarin so he is only free once Zakarin is safe.

Ulissi turned out to be a bad pick.

I used another transfer today bring Conti in for Lopez, at least he should pick up 10 points for the next 3 or 4 stages. Although Lopez got 10 today angry

Yeah, Madouas is great. I went for Ciccone for leading the KOM pts and got wind that today he was riding through his home town. I thought today was made for him being as he could do with some more pts now Masnada is in the game.

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MinardiM189 replied to Condor Andy | 5 years ago
0 likes

Condor Andy wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

Quite likely we will see someone new in Pink.

But WHO?? That is the question. One of the outside guys who's in the top 20? Carboni? Madouas? Masnada? How are the peloton going to race it? We saw the same kind of racing at the Vuelta last year on stages 5 and 12. Almost identical to this race. Huge gamble to put someone in who might do well, but what have I got to lose at this point?

I could just make 2 transfers a day for a while, building the best team for the final few days.

It is a pretty flat start, so that goes against smaller riders getting in the break.

Once a break goes away it is difficult to know who will control things.

Unless Conti gets in the break himself I think it will be very difficult for him to stay in Pink. The only way is if GC teams take it really easy on the climb, if anyone goes for it Conti will lose over 2 mins. Based on that I don't see UAE working that hard to control the break.

Roglic has a good lead so I don't see Jumbo chasing the break. Other GC teams won't want to use energy with hard stages on Friday & Saturday.

It could end up with all the teams refusing to chase and the break winning by 10 minutes.

 

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

Dr Winston wrote:

Don’t understand this Giro at all. What on earth is going on? No problem with a big break today...almost expected...but 14 mins?

GC riders....what on earth are they doing?

This is exactly what I expected today although I didn't anticipate Polanc being in the break.

It was always going to be a came of call my bluff with the GC teams. At some stage I hope Mitchelton Scott have to chase and nobody does anything to help them.

 

Polanc is a very big surprise....as is the time thay’ve given him. What I don’t understand is why the peleton din’t just close the door at about 6 minutes. They seem he’ll bent on making things difficult for themselves like when they let Bilbao and Formolo go.

None of the GC teams want to work.

If it wasn't for Trek helping out UAE Formolo & Bilbao would have gained even more time.

I think Mitcehelton cause the problem by completely refusing to work.

At some stage I can see someone gaining a hell of a lot of time and no-one doing anything about it.

Aye. We have to remember the numbers being quoted for Polanc is the lead he will have over Roglic....a lot of the others are a big chunk behind that. As I said last night there really isn’t much wiggle room left for the like of Yates and Lopez. After today they’re faced with maybe getting back 10 mins on Polanc and 3 mins on Roglic. I have no idea who’s making the decisions for some of these teams but they might want to revise their strategies.

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Sniffer | 5 years ago
0 likes

Sniffer wrote:

Condor Andy wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

At one stage Viviani was 4th in the points classification with the 18 points he scored on Stage 2.

However it now appears that these points taken off him as an additional punishment.

That's what I'm assuming too, but I was trying to find confirmation of his punishment.

I think he will be on minus points

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-ditalia-viviani-unrepentant-after-s...

 

I suspect that some of the punishment is for what he has said to the judges. When Nizzolo was relegated in the fianl stage in 2016 he didn't lose any points.

Didn't Viviani have a major tantrum at the track World Championship one year, accusing all the other riders of conspiring against him, or was that Gaviria?

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
0 likes

Dr Winston wrote:

Yeah, Madouas is great. I went for Ciccone for leading the KOM pts and got wind that today he was riding through his home town. I thought today was made for him being as he could do with some more pts now Masnada is in the game.

I though about Ciccone for stages 6,7,8 & 9 but he could only ever score a maximum of 43 points from KoM over the 4 stages. So I decided Ulissi & Battaglin were better options. angry

I need to figure out what will happen tomorrow now.

Thunderstorms possible at the finish, it should be an interesting descent down to the finish.

GC guys and sprinters teams mixing it up on the descent !!!!

Avatar
Dr Winston replied to MinardiM189 | 5 years ago
0 likes

MinardiM189 wrote:

Condor Andy wrote:

MinardiM189 wrote:

Quite likely we will see someone new in Pink.

But WHO?? That is the question. One of the outside guys who's in the top 20? Carboni? Madouas? Masnada? How are the peloton going to race it? We saw the same kind of racing at the Vuelta last year on stages 5 and 12. Almost identical to this race. Huge gamble to put someone in who might do well, but what have I got to lose at this point?

I could just make 2 transfers a day for a while, building the best team for the final few days.

It is a pretty flat start, so that goes against smaller riders getting in the break.

Once a break goes away it is difficult to know who will control things.

Unless Conti gets in the break himself I think it will be very difficult for him to stay in Pink. The only way is if GC teams take it really easy on the climb, if anyone goes for it Conti will lose over 2 mins. Based on that I don't see UAE working that hard to control the break.

Roglic has a good lead so I don't see Jumbo chasing the break. Other GC teams won't want to use energy with hard stages on Friday & Saturday.

It could end up with all the teams refusing to chase and the break winning by 10 minutes.

 

Possibly....but also possible they attack the pink jersey elect. His nearest serious contender is three minutes behind him and he has a further TT to come.  Three minutes is more than just one good day of beating Roglic. If it isn’t tomorrow then i’d suggest it’s very soon if any of them seriously think they can beat him at this Giro for overall.

Avatar
MinardiM189 replied to Dr Winston | 5 years ago
0 likes

Dr Winston wrote:

Aye. We have to remember the numbers being quoted for Polanc is the lead he will have over Roglic....a lot of the others are a big chunk behind that. As I said last night there really isn’t much wiggle room left for the like of Yates and Lopez. After today they’re faced with maybe getting back 10 mins on Polanc and 3 mins on Roglic. I have no idea who’s making the decisions for some of these teams but they might want to revise their strategies.

Astana will have Cataldo back into contention after today, which gives them 3 options on GC. SO I understand their strategy.

I don't think Mitchelton now have a strategy, apart from not to do any work chasing.

 

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