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No Overtaking Sign vs Solid White Line
In one of my nerdy diggings through the legislation, I discovered that there is a difference between solid white lines and the no-overtaking sign...
The no-overtaking sign applies to all vehicles (including bicycles) and does not have the concession that you may overtake a bicycle or vehicle travelling less than 10mph, nor does it restrict parking like a solid white line does.
It appears I may be regularly breaking the law. There is a road near me that has these signs - I have overtaken cyclists both on my bike and in the car on this road. I am also always passed when cycling on this road.
There is not much info out there on this, just an old thread on another bicycle forum, where someone suggested that the actual rules that apply to a specific stretch of road, will be stated in a TRO (traffic regulation order) made by the council.
Interestingly (or maybe not!), there is a caveat on the Menai Bridge that allows bicycles to overtake other bicycles.
It got me thinking, could the no-overtaking sign be used more to benefit cyclists? Such as on 20mph streets where there is a 'quiet way' cycling route, to specifically prevent cars from overtaking?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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- bikes 11 min 6 sec ago
If Cycling UK aren't helping you already, please start a GoFundMe for lawyer's fees. I would like to see this story get more widespread coverage.
- don simon fbpe 30 min 13 sec ago
Some great cycling country, but some of the shittest driving I've ever seen. RIP brother.
- PenLaw 45 min 5 sec ago
Land ownership in England is a complete farce. Riverside walks are out of bounds and for cycling, the craziest situation is the Lambley viaduct...
- quiff 1 hour 8 min ago
Your phrasing suggests you/we don't already do this which makes us part of the problem!...
- old bod 1 hour 13 min ago
and for flying mosquitoes in ww2 films
- BPhillips 2 hours 53 min ago
Thanks for your thoughts David. Argos is looking a good bet.
- mdavidford 3 hours 4 min ago
I'm pretty sure this is at least the third time the BBC have had a story on this - not sure why they keep forgetting that they've covered it.
- cyclisto 3 hours 16 min ago
Watching sports seems super boring to me, so not a problem....
- Secret_squirrel 3 hours 27 min ago
Wattbike are notorious for releasing products before the software is ready. Likely long term it will be fine....
- Secret_squirrel 3 hours 32 min ago
That is a horror show. A gravel racers bike but since it has a motor no racer can use it....
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17 comments
Personally I think unbroken white lines are much more noticable (and serious-looking) than a small sign that could be missed or possibly obscured by trees. Incidently, there is a road near me that partlally has double-whites, it's downhill so you can easily reach 25+mph, but vehicles overtake because it's wide enough to do so without going over the lines (Oh, and because MGIF).
Could be just a single unbroken white line
Interesting. It's hard to envisage many situations where a bike on bike overtake would be dangerous, so I can't imagine that being enforced, even if it is technically an infraction.
The LTN wars have shown how many motorists don't understand / obey the no motor vehicles sign, so I wouldn't hold much hope of them understanding / obeying the no overtaking sign.
Well the no-overtaking sign on the road near me even gets broken by cars overtaking other cars. They seem to think as there is not a double white line, that it's still ok.
I must admit, it's really weird having these signs instead of a double white line. Either the council put these signs in because they don't want bicycles to be passed, or motorbikes to filter... or it was cheaper than painting lines. I might ask them!
(weirdly, a couple of years ago they resurfaced the whole road and at the time I thought, well, they'll put double whites back down - but nope!)
They seem to think as there is not a double white line, that it's still ok
I object! They definitely do think that where there is a double white line it's still OK
I thought this topic might be up your street!
Up my street here in the Wild West, almost nothing done by the drivers of motorised vehicles is deemed illegal. Both Lancashire Constabulary and Royal Mail refused to take any action.
They don't take action on solid white lines because of the 10mph concessesion for overtaking bicycles. The law doesn't say how to determine the speed of the bicycle, so it's difficult to prove a driver was aware the bicycle was travelling faster. A defence of 'I thought they were doing 10mph' is pretty much solid, no matter what.
But the 'no-overtaking' sign has no such concession. If this sign were to be placed at either end of the bridge with double white lines that often gives you trouble, then the mere fact they were overtaking would be grounds for prosecution. It would be hard to wriggle out of it, other than claiming ignorance that the sign didn't apply to bicycles (which to be fair, I've only just realised!).
My reading of the legislation is that there is no excuse of "reasonable belief" or similar. Therefore, if the prosecution can demonstrate (beyond reasonable doubt) that the cyclist was, as a matter of fact, travelling faster than 10mph, then it is (as far as I can tell) irrelevant what the driver thought. I would have thought that with GPS data and video footage, when a cyclist is travelling substantially faster than 10mph, it should be pretty straightforward to prove this.
If you come at it from the other angle:
How would the driver know the cyclist was doing less than 10mph?
The only method possible would be to slow to the same speed of the bicycle, check the speedo, then only pass if it's less than 10mph.
If you look at it that way, then any driver who doesn't slow before passing could be prosecuted for due care. It just seems to be one of those rules that isn't enforced, because the highway code doesn't tell you how to determine the bicycle's speed and as such, maybe a court will be unwilling to find guilty.
(much like the bicycle lighting regs, that I must admit to rarely conforming to)
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse a precedent that has been held in UK courts including famously when laws were passed while a ship was at sea and the captain had no way of knowing what had happened back in England.
I think solid white lines can only be used on roads of at least a certain minimum width.
Yes, I think that is a good reason why a no-overtaking sign could be used rather than double white lines - would also mean you couldn't pass a cyclists on a narrow road. But the particular road near me is a very wide major A-road.
The Menai Bridge caveat...
> It got me thinking, could the no-overtaking sign be used more to benefit cyclists? Such as on 20mph streets where there is a 'quiet way' cycling route, to specifically prevent cars from overtaking?
It could prohibit overtaking, but I doubt it could prevent overtaking - unless it is a really big sign.
Now there's an idea!
I agree what we need is a massive no overtaking sign on a motorised pivot like a giant flyswatter for overtaking cars.