First ride: Bianchi Infinito CV Disc

Another road bike with discs, good.

But I'm surprised to see so many posters arguing about braking superiority or aero properties and overlooking, to me, the single most important benefit of disc over rim brake equipped bikes; the problem of rim wear goes away.

If my 'nice' bike had discs, I'd still take it out in less than perfect weather, as it's the accelerated wear of my rims that concerns me as much as getting wet. And it's not just the cost of replacement rims each year, it's the worry that as you approach replacement, are you pushing it too far?

I couldn't care less about a few extra grams, arguably worse aero dynamics or even better braking power (though that's a nice add on benefit). I want a bike with lower maintenance.

That is a lovely bike!!

There's no doubt about it Disc brakes work better than callipers but are they really necessary? I think not, moreover its a marketing exercise.

They are ubiquitous on MTBs these days and that makes sense where your rims are likely to get gunged-up with mud. Cantilever rim brakes also used to get covered in mud and become much less effective but you don't really get that on a road bike so I think its just fashion.

They're heavier too and put the frame under more stress.

Its much easier to do a face plant with them though and they definitely take some getting used to

^ that sums it up for me. Stuff which is bloody good, being obsoleted for (mostly) profit reasons. See also UN72 BBs...

"That's recreational riders, essentially, and commuters."

That's me, then! Sure, I'll go out and ride 75 miles, but it's purely recreation. Can't wait for Planet-X to bring out an RT58 with discs! Got to be an improvement on my 2006 Dawes Horizon!

'As far as I can see, and I cycle every day in all weathers, rim brakes are a fad aimed at people who think they need them. That's recreational riders, essentially, and commuters. '

um...you mean *disc* brakes, right?

Disk brakes on road bikes will overtake rim brakes within the next 2 years, and drag and weight issues will be solved the moment the former become ubiquitous. To buy a rim brake bike now seems to me a bit like buying a vhs player the moment dvd burst on the scene. And yes, disk brakes make cycling safer for most (sportive) cyclists, especially in the wet. And yes, they open the prospect of multi purpose bikes with 2 wheel sets, one for the road, one for off-road.

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As far as I can see, and I cycle every day in all weathers, rim brakes are a fad aimed at people who think they need them. That's recreational riders, essentially, and commuters.

Which is what makes all these disc-brake equipped bikes so odd. Not permitted in racing, heavy, un-aerodynamic: these appear to be aimed at... who?

Firstly, I think you meant to say that you think DISC brakes are a fad...
Not permitted in racing: not yet no but the UCI are running the 2015 Paris Roubaix as a test event so I reckon it'll be coming soon.
Heavy: maybe a bit heavier than a rim braked bike - depends a bit on componentry but yes, two otherwise identical bikes but the difference is still less than a bottle of water. And once you've loaded the bike down with water, saddle pack and a slightly overweight MAMIL who really cares?
Un-aerodynamic: now that really is a fad - managing to convince a Sportive rider that an aero bike is the answer cos it saves 4 seconds over 25 miles. Aero (for recreational riders) really is a waste of time when you look around at an average commuter with a rucksack or a Sportive rider with their number board and flappy clothing so frankly I'd take better stopping power over the extra 12 seconds it'll take me to cover 25 miles. Cos that is literally all we're talking about.

Maybe for a top end world class racer yes but even then I'd reckon that any marginal aero loss would be offset by the fact that you can brake later for corners and carry more speed.

Just came across this pic of someone who probably knows a thing a too about racing performance and in a situation where she's free to choose her brakes...

http://cdn4.coresites.mpora.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-cyc...

If hydraulic disc brakes are good enough for Mw. Vos I suspect they're probably not going to cramp most of our styles too much!

Except, of course, it's not aimed at a competitive environment. As we know, disk brakes aren't permitted by the UCI

Ah, silly me, I forgot that sportives and chain gangs are not in any way, shape or form competitive, and any tendency to go as fast as possible while partaking is just a wild coincidence...

Who would race with discs? Well, that would be anyone much doing MTB these days, and an increasing proportion of 'cross riders. They have more issues of wet and gooey, of course, but they still do "fast" and doing some gnarly descent of an alp in the wet on the road I'll take the more powerful, more easily modulated brakes if it's all the same. MTB races were won on rim brakes for years, yet reasons were found to change that I suspect had to do with competitive advantage.

In a top level race you've got other issues that have been highlighted by the top teams, particularly that you can't just get "any old" 700c wheel stuck in from a neutral service vehicle any more, but most riders don't have the luxury of a service vehicle of any sort so that's a bit of a moot point.

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: "Risk compensation gets more interesting in a competitive environment (the sort where this bike is aimed, of course)"

Except, of course, it's not aimed at a competitive environment. As we know, disk brakes aren't permitted by the UCI, and in the Tour de France the riders were happy to use the rim brake Infinito CV, winning a stage with it. Imagine that, how did they ever win a stage of the TdF, with just old-fashioned rim brakes!

As far as I can see, and I cycle every day in all weathers, rim brakes are a fad aimed at people who think they need them. That's recreational riders, essentially, and commuters.

Which is what makes all these disc-brake equipped bikes so odd. Not permitted in racing, heavy, un-aerodynamic: these appear to be aimed at... who? Not racers. Crashes in racing don't appear to happen because the riders couldn't brake, they happen because they get taken out by a crash in the blink of an eye. No brakes are going to stop that.

Commuter bikes with disks I can understand, it's heartbreaking to feel your ally rims being ground away over the winter in the salty, gritty slush that is our winter roads. I dare say if I was building a commuter/winter bike I'd think of disks as an option. But then, isn't the tyre/road interface the critical part? I can easily lock up the brakes on my bike - even in the wet, after a momentary delay.

All of which makes me wonder, is the UCI about to allow disks in competition, to try to stimulate a flat, recession-hit bike market? You'd have to think so.

Anyway that's my 2d worth.

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it climbs well too, despite its 8.2kg

Lol. The road.cc guys and girls suffer for their art, hauling such boat anchors uphill

I don't quite understand how Bianchi get to 8.2kg with this bike even if the frame is 100g heavier than non-disc. Weight certainly isn't everything but that's a stiff penalty, especially for a bike that will cost around £6000.

I understand risk compensation, I think pretty well thanks to John Adams' "Risk".

One situation where the outcome will be better with hydraulic discs is not having to change the cables and having much less faff to keep them in tune. More than a few "interesting" moments I've had with rim brakes, that I'm compensating for, has been down to poor maintenance (mea culpa!), but whether safer or not IME hydraulics are just much nicer to use. So given the choice of this or the rim version, I'd have this.

Risk compensation gets more interesting in a competitive environment (the sort where this bike is aimed, of course) because being able to take more risks can give a competitive advantage. That's not the same as safer, but if your goal is to avoid as many accidents as you can then any difference between hydraulic discs and mechanical rim brakes is going to be inconsequential compared to the difference between racing and not.

Yes, you can think of situations where the outcome will be better with discs. Similarly you can think of situations where the outcome will be better with rim brakes due to risk compensation.

You're right, how the two cases will play out for road cycling and discs v rims isn't established yet.

Risk compensation however is a general human fact. It's pretty certain that cyclists *will* go faster in certain places because they have better brakes. This article illustrates it perfectly.

Weight penalty 1.2kg!!! That's not trivial.
Where are the aero penalty figures for disc bikes?
Bike manufacturers don't seem to publish them.

Wet conditions is exactly where ABS gives huge improvements too. Yet, in the real-world studies accident rates weren't different. I'll take those over your opinion. Basically: I think you under-estimate the power of risk compensation.

That may well be right, but when you take into account wet conditions I'd argue that disk brakes are a huge improvement over rim brakes - you get fairly consistent braking no matter what the conditions - something that is definitely not the case with rim brakes.

"You can brake later and harder"

Ah, classic risk compensation at work. You're not safer at all, you're just taking the same (perceived) risk, and going faster.

Indeed, if anything unexpected should happen past the point where you'd have started braking with rim brakes, but before the point where the disc brakes have slowed you to same speed or less as rim brakes, you may well end up *worse* off.

Studies on population wide deployment of improved brakes (e.g. ABS in taxi fleets in München) do *NOT* show that safety outcomes are improved overall. Cyclists are highly unlikely to be any different with disc brakes.

Please just stop with this "disc brakes will make you safer!" claim - it's counter-factual.

hopefully they'll fit the new Ultegra Di2 upgrade. Then we'll be in business!