Police stop Evesham cyclists to warn against dark clothing

on the burglary point, there is evidence that the police try and catch burglars, there is evidence that the legal system doesn't give a **** about drivers and dangerous driving.

Tinternet_tim wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Where's your evidence that this organisation 'have experience in road safety?

I'll tell you what, I'll leave you to your half empty glass of beer / juice etc.

So many are quick to critic as it's so easy to do so. Wonder how many of those who are critical have actually tried to make a difference for others or a community? Maybe try it one day, it's actually quite rewarding and it takes a bit of character as lots just want to prove you wrong and find problems!!!

But 'making a difference' is not in itself a good thing. The important question is whether they are making things better or worse. I tend to think, on balance, badgering people about high-viz clothing makes things worse rather than better (I'm actually OK with it regarding lights).

I mean, I don't actually know whether the stories about Islamists going around telling women to cover up or people to stop drinking are actually true or Daily Mail myth - but if it were true, would you applaud that as well on the basis that they are 'making a difference for their community'?

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You either take responsibility for your own safety or you put it in the hands of strangers who may not even know you're there. Anybody who disregards good safety advice is pretty dumb and probably not much loss to the human gene pool if their actions result in injury or worse.

Whether we cyclists like it or not, our lives are in the hands of drivers to a large extent.

Under every cycling article in a national newspaper, you get anti-cycling trolls using the line, 'if you don't do X (what I want you to do) you will die, and it'll be your own fault/you'll deserve it'. Thankfully, I haven't seen it often under articles in road.cc, and if there's a troll signed up here making such comments, as far as I'm concerned he/she is not welcome.

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Clearly, you are unable to understand basic English. For your benefit and anyone else who is cerebrally challenged

Your comment did follow exactly the formula I described, talking about 'injury or worse.'

Your subsequent comment to me is personal abuse. If this site were moderated, it would be deleted. In any event, your style of debating is not something to be encouraged.

I just knew,on reading the headline but before reading the comments,that there would be the usual predictable boring bloody idiots on here banging on about victim blaming,slagging off the cops blah blah boring blah
Honestly,I don't know how some of you lot manage to actually ride your bikes,weighed down as you are with your senses of grievance and chips on your shoulders.
Here's how it works-the cops work to detect crime after its happened ,and at the same time to prevent crime before it does-if giving out some high viz either helps a cyclist to be seen on a dark night,or makes the cyclist think a bit about his own safety,then how can that be a bad thing ? Or would you rather they did nothing pro active and waited until its time to wash the body parts off the road before telling someone Daddy isn't coming home for tea?
And before you say they should be tackling motorists-they are-day in,day out,seizing uninsured cars,crawling over the scrote wagons and generally trying to make a difference-just because you don't see them doing it doesn't mean it's not going on-suppose though its always easier to to be a keyboard critic than actually getting out there and doing it
Bloody hell-drives me mad and is driving me off this forum

Makes sense to me. I've seen cyclists with no lights at night or lights so feeble that you can't see them at any distance.

Or lights blocked by their wheels, or bags, or mudguards or thir jacket hanging down over the saddle and hiding the light completely.

I've seen cyclists in fog (just) with no lights and wearing a fog coloured rain jacket.

I've even missed my riding mate on a dull day when he was all in black.

A bit of bright kit can't harm you. We all know it's not magic but it doesn't harm your chances. With some drivers you could be on fire and they're so dopy they'd not notice.

If the plod stopped me because they didn't like the clothing I was wearing then they would be told to go fuck themselves. They have no power to stop cyclists because they don't like cyclists' choices of clothing, in fact, it is an abuse of their powers.

Oh FFS....

Can we talk about helmets for a bit instead...?

'there is evidence that the legal system doesn't give a **** about drivers and dangerous driving.'

That is, of course, absolute shite.

More pedestrians than cyclists are killed by motor vehicles. If high viz is so effective why aren't the police handing it out and offering 'advice' to pedestrians as well?

My bright reflective clothing and flashing rear light didn't stop the idiot driver who overtook me yesterday, with only inches to spare, who then immediately turned left across my path - while still partially alongside me. Emergency braking saved me - just. My very vocal response is unrepeatable here. Such breathtaking stupidity by car, van and bus drivers is now becoming a daily feature of my rides.

Cant win no matter what they try to do. Perhaps try doing our job will give people an insight into what we do have to deal with, such as the young 16 year old asylum seeker sold into prostitution by unscrupulous blokes or the 6 year old kid running through the snow last night because mammy was being filled in by her boyfriend again or sitting in the road for 50 mins holding a blokes head waiting for an ambulance after a cyclist decided to go for a gap that wasn't there or better still sitting with an old lady trying to comfort her after some bloke pretended to be from the gas board and stole her jewellery. The list goes on and on and on.

But people on here would rather we stood at junctions stopping people who drive into the cycling box or are on their mobiles, but yes we do that as well when we get a chance...

Are the police stopping drivers to let them know that there are cyclists on the road and should be using greater awareness when driving and taking measures not to run them over?

"In 2013, a University of Bath and Brunel University study found that no matter what clothing a cyclist wears, around 1-2 per cent of drivers will pass dangerously close.

when discussing cycle safety, cyclists seem obsessed with being seen from behind. I don't understand this, surely you are far more likely to be injured by a car pulling out in front of you. Does anyone have a breakdown by type of accident?

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Hivis is at best a distraction from the real issue which is inconsiderate/distracted or dangerous driving. Anti social driving is a big thing in the UK, and doesn't just affect people on bikes, but everyone other than people in cars.

This.
Expecting cyclists to wear hiviz just gives the driver another get out clause. We've already seen the driver who got off lightly becasue the sun was in their eyes. buggered if I know why they didn't just slow down...
It's not just "everyone other than people in cars", it's on other car drivers too, it's pedestrians on pedestrians, pedestrians on cyclists, cyclists on cyclists, neighbour on neighbour.
This is a selfish country where we expect to do what we want, when we want and have decided that when it all goes pear shaped that it MUST be the other person's fault/responsibility.
we are not considerate towards others and we don't want to take responsibility for our own selfish actions.

a few points 3.8Million drivers have points.

http://road.cc/content/news/44102-courts-let-nearly-half-motorists-who-a...

(note 43% of those with more than 12 are still driving)

c32Million Adults have licences.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts02-driving-licenc...

two thirds of drivers ADMIT to speeding

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4241215.stm

I grant the numbers are from different years, and aren't directly comparable.

I think they make the point well enough

The point I am trying to make, most drivers break the law and most drivers get away with it, and even if they do get caught they don't get banned. Can you imagine any other crime where this would be so tolerated?

Let's introduce Rapha High-Viz clothing into the debate and send the forum into the stratosphere!

At this time of year, during daylight hours, the sun when it is out is generally low in the sky therefore high-viz clothing does not help, in fact it is more likely to be much worse at being seen by drivers as it reflects light and makes harder for you to be seen on the road. Reflective clothing in all conditions with a mix of some dark clothing for during the day would be better. Dark colours obviously absorb light hence making it easier for you to be seen in bright conditions. Same theory but opposite reason as to why for example combat soldiers do not wear dark clothing in the snow! I have and Exposure 6 pack and Joystick on the front of my bike and a Hope District + on the rear as well as Cateyes front and rear on flash mode. I run these day or night yet it doesn't to make much difference for some drivers!!

I am an advanced motorcycle instructor and the hiviz debate is just as topical in our community, along with why do I need to have my headlight on. When I get a student who doesn't believe in hiviz I don't say anything.

I train with radios and its not long before up ahead there will be a motorcyclist or cyclist without hiviz or a light and one who does. Over the radio I ask them how many vehicles they can see. When we stop they are surprised at how much the light or hiviz made them earlier to see.

No it doesn't stop someone making a close call, or pulling out in front of you, that will happen. But it does make you more visible and it definitely helps, especially in built up areas. Unfortunately statistics cannot prove that because no incident results.

These campaigns are missing the point completely and just reinforcing to motorists that they have an excuse if they hit a cyclist. SMIDSY but hey its your fault, where's your hi viz jacket?

I think there is too much emphasis on hi viz and helmets and the like. Lights perhaps should be on at all times? LED lights now are as cheap as chips and stay bright for ages. But the biggest danger to cyclists are the motorists who on the whole are plain unaccepting that cyclists even exist let alone are out on the roads. We are hammered if we listen to music when we ride and we are legally forced to ride around with a bell! When has anyone avoided a crash with a car by ringing a bell? When has anyone avoided a crash with a car because he did not hear it coming? Car drivers on the other hand ride around in sound proofed boxes with multi speaker sound systems. The onus needs to be on getting the motorists to accept that bikes are there and accept that they are vulnerable and give them the space they deserve. Stupid police campaigns focussing in on minutiae like this one are only there to boost the promotion prospects of the organiser "Look what I did!" What about pedestrians crossing the road, are they asked to wear a helmet and an HV vest?

Following on from my earlier post:

Reggie Plate wrote:

"My bright reflective clothing and flashing rear light didn't stop the idiot driver who overtook me yesterday, with only inches to spare, who then immediately turned left across my path - while still partially alongside me. Emergency braking saved me - just. My very vocal response is unrepeatable here. Such breathtaking stupidity by car, van and bus drivers is now becoming a daily feature of my rides."

I forgot to menton it was daylight at the time. The driver saw me, but it obviously didn't enter her head that it was dangerous to pass so closely, or to overtake me on a left hand bend just before she wanted to turn left into a side road.

Telling cyclists to wear reflective clothing and helmets is all well and good, but it's not tackling the root cause of the problem. Drivers are generally ignorant of the dangers and something needs to be done to make them more aware. Until that happens, more cyclists will be injured or killed.

Oozaveared, spot on as usual.

Oozaveared,

One issue, and this is a problem, if one cyclist wears hi-viz they are more visible. if two wear hi-viz they are more visible, BUT if motorists decide unconsciously to look for hi-viz and don't see non hi-viz cyclists, hi-viz isn't really helping.

I know that is badly worded!

The roads are full of animals, walkers, cyclists, etc. some people can wear hi-viz but you will never get everything painted up. At some point you have to get drivers to look. Part of the problem, in-fact most of the problem IMO, is that the human brain is actually incapable of processing most of what it sees.

Trying to keep traffic flowing, by fast intersections, by roundabouts, all you do is deprive people of the chance to look. Even in a busy urban environment where the gaps in traffic are small people don't really look.

Actually, the irony is that cyclists riding on the road after dark sans lights, _does_ seem to be generally tolerated, notwithstanding one-off campaigns. And it irks me both as a cyclist and a pedestrian (I'd quite like to be able to see them coming when crossing the road).

I think it still just highlights the point that one-off gimmick campaigns solve nothing, and that road safety needs far more systematic change (most definitely including infrastructure!).

Don't know if it is connected, last two nights west Mercian have had a couple of cars and motorbikes pulling drivers on the A46 just south of Evesham. Quite a shock the way drivers change their behaviour when they might get pulled over.