Campagnolo strike threat as 1 in 5 jobs cut at Vicenza HQ

Shimano have ran out of 10 speed di2 parts, including the rear derailleur. They come with the Japanese culture of disposability and aren't even interested in their own heritage.

Campag have field service, old and new parts.

No point in saying Campag have lost the OEM market - as they never had any real penetration here as they have always been too expensive.

Shimano works, but doesn't really reward any fettling, and they do need some one to keep them honest.

Quote:

They come with the Japanese culture of disposability and aren't even interested in their own heritage.

Sorry, but this kind of cheap throwaway comment is the kind of thing that some Campag users resort to and it reflects very badly on them.

Since when does Japan have any kind of culture of disposability?
Since when is Shimano not interested in their own heritage?

Ooh look, a Shimano museum...
http://www.headsetpress.co.uk/feature/shimano-bicycle-museum/

Campagnolo? Er, some kind of virtual museum/website to publicise an anniversary groupset...

1921: Shozaburo Shimano establishes Shimano Iron Works and begins production of the original Shimano freewheel.

1930: Campagnolo patents the quick-release hub

Windbags.

Quote:

Shimano have ran out of 10 speed di2 parts, including the rear derailleur.

Yes, that would be because they're POPULAR and have sold many hundreds of thousands of units worldwide.
And you can programme 11sp Di2 to work on 10sp so if you trash a 10sp rear mech and don't want to upgrade your entire groupset, you just buy an 11sp rear mech, re-programme it to 10sp mode and carry on.

It doesn't really matter if Campagnolo is making the absolute best parts or not. They've clearly made a series of bad business decisions and have managed themselves into a bind. You can stick to design and tradition all you want but if you can't build and sell product profitably, keep up with the market, and grow year over year, you're in trouble. All the Italian soul in the world doesn't excuse you from having to run a smart business. Increasingly, they're becoming quite simply irrelevant. It wouldn't be surprising if Campagnolo faced a takeover scenario within the next 10 years. The market is too competitive and changing too quickly, and the Italians too stuck in their ways, for a company that is falling behind to keep standing. Which is a shame because the parts are beautiful.

I don't care where it's made, I'll still buy it and use it as long as it works and looks nice.

Whilst I have 105 on my turbo bike and have had Ultegra in the past (perfectly fine just functional and ugly) I had Dura ace once, after the cassette exploded and the left shifter ratchet gave up that was all the experience I needed to finally give up buying Shimano for ever.

Sram on the other hand I have had only positive experiences with other than I don't really like double tap. I'm sure I could get used to it though and that's where I'd head if Campag went to the wall.

However, Campagnolo will survive and I'll keep buying it. If it does die I have enough of a stockpile of parts to see me through the apocalypse. I keep picking up spares, problem is it simply doesn't break and I'm a sucker for the shiny.

Shimano is popular for sure. But popular doesn't mean good, people still buy Vauxhalls and Take That albums.

Anyway, isn't some Sportful and Castelli made in Romania? They seem to still be doing ok for an 'Italian' brand.

Nobody seems to mind that Shimano is made in Malaysia, why should they mind if Campagnolo is made in Romania?

the market needs all three to keep eachother on their toes, thats the truth of it. altho i do i like dropping out of shape middle aged posers riding Super Record though i must say. spend more time looking at their bike than riding them

Sad to see the slow death of Italian manufacturing, but the rest of their cycle industry has been quick to adopt the offshore model and Campag can only resist the economic reality for so long. As recently as the 1980s c.25% of the workforce in Vicenza were classified as "artisans", with a tradition of metal working (silversmithing) that goes back to the middle ages, and this has long been reflected in Campag's craft based approach to finishing and presenting their goods (have a look for the Bora video on YouTube). It's happening all over Italy, for example most of the "Murano" glass sold in Venice is manufactured in China - you can still get the real stuff, but it's too expensive for most consumers. At least Italy can fall back on tourism to help pay its way in the world (though sadly while it was difficult to find a bad meal there 30 years ago, that is no longer the case). All very, very depressing.

It's most likely not that the workers get such high wages. Instead, it's probably the high taxes and red tape that most if not all Italian businesses face. The country is struggling through the economic crisis, and so are its people - except for the happy few obviously. Sad to hear the news. I love Campagnolo. Used Shimano before and still do on commuter bike. It works, but that's it. Campy makes me happy. It looks better to me and I love the ability to shift several cogs with one movement. And to me it's a way to connect with and support Italy.

The key statement here is:

"This decision results from necessity to put in place a business plan presented to the trades unions and staff organisations, necessary to ensure the continued production at that site, which also houses group functions and activities related to new products and new technologies."

No one is talking about a closure of the main site at Vicenza. What is being suggested is that some assembly and production operations are expanded in two plants already up and running in Romania whilst Vicenza continues to do the great bulk of what it does now - R and D, proprietory-process manufacture and the design and manufacture of the machinery that Campagnolo need to allow them to follow those proprietory manufacturing processes.

This is absolutely *not* about who is better - a Ford Modeo or a Vauxhall Sigma or, for that matter a 25 year old Mini or a brand new Aston Martin do basically the same job, but they are at different price points and each has there adherents - and it's the same with Campag, Shimano and SRAM.

Shimano and SRAM are head to head competitors in that their business models are focussed on an across-the board offering, from (almost) entry level OEM to high-end aftermarket. Campagnolo are competitors at a slight tangent to the other two - they are focussed on mid level OEM and after-market.

Different philosophies produce different solutions and different ways of working - what Campagnolo are doing is something that should be applauded - keeping manufacturing and innovation in Europe where possible - why? Because once we loose these things in Europe, getting them back is going to be very, very difficult.

Anyone bought the new Campag 11 speed chain tool?

http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Campagnolo-UT-CN300-Ultralink-11-Speed-Ch...

Requires real dedication...

I like campagnolo, I like the history, I like the way it shifts, I like the quality, i like the durability of most parts, I like the ergo levers, I like shiny alloy, I like beautiful looking chainsets, i like the fact its not shimano. I have nothing against shimano like I have nothing against a honda, but I'm not going to go out of my way to use it, tried it, just not for me.

Wonder if Campag could improve their efficiency in their distribution side, and find cost savings there?

If you look at the UK, they have 5 different distributors, as well as a sales agent office. This is not uncommon in other territories.

Seems strange, compared to Madison with Shimano, or Fisher with SRAM

Margins are also terrible on Campag for retailers, which does not help shop promote the brand.

Campag looks the prettiest.
Lock the thread.

The main difference to me between shimano and campag is I can fix my campag stuff.you can still buy cups and cone sets for 70's hubs also the spares for ergo shifters are easy to get hold of, for me campag is use, maintain carry on using. Where as shimano is use , break throw away replace

I like the 'Campag have done other stuff' above. It is a nice counterpoint to the usual 'Shimano make fishing reels' quote...

I like Campag too, but not for the usual reasons; I like Campag because there needs to be a market for groupsets, and without Campag it's not a real market. They have a well deserved reputation for quality and for adding design to well engineered kit. I admire their attempts to maintain a workforce who are well paid and who work in Western Europe; the move eastwards seems inevitable, but at least they have tried.

I like Campagnolo.
I have had a couple of bikes that wear Campagnolo.
Some of this Campagnolo kit is still going strong after 16 years.
I am happy to pay a premium for Campagnolo.
The last bike I bought was specced with Campagnolo for less than the equivalent Shimano (see above).
I also have a bike that wears Shimano, it works, it's relatively hardwearing but it just doesn't feel the same.
My next bike is likely to be specced with Campagnolo unless they join this market of producing cheapness, then I'm open to offers.
My mtb has SRAM, so I've tried them all.

campagnolo have done the disc brake thing before anyway.

and a few other unusual things

Anyway, one of the most important innovations of recent history belongs to Suntour, the slant parallelogram rear mech.

And look what happened to Suntour when they didn't innovate....

Quote:

Canyon and Rose push Campagnolo on their bikes at a more than reasonable price and now Planet X has ditched SRAM in favour of value bikes with Campagnolo.

Yes but my point was shop floor.
Like it or not, most bikes are sold by Halfords. That's where your new cyclist is going, not some boutique German website.

Their new bike will therefore have Shimano or SRAM. And Campag are off to a losing battle already.

This thread isn't supposed to be about which is "better", in fact I've been trying to steer it away from that tribal "I love my Campag therefore it's better than Shimano" shite that people keep coming up with. Although while I'm here...

Quote:

Last time I checked you could only downshift one cog at a time on Shimano.

You can programme Di2 to do whatever you want with whatever shifter you want.
Bottom line is that Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM all work - certainly more than well enough for mere mortals. But that's kind of irrelevant for Campag right now. They've clearly got their fans - a few of them right here on this thread - but it's not helping them stay in business is it? And it would be a great shame for the sport if they went out of business.

Quote:

The tribalism within the road cycling community does make me despair. Brand loyalties, snobbery and reverse snobbery...

I agree wholeheartedly, I think Campag are an important part of cycling and I would be disappointed if they become less of an influence.

I wasn't making the point Campag had invented all that stuff.
But that there are more than the big few, and how smaller guys who had the good engineering to get ideas off the ground have got forgotten.
Shimano hasn't invented as much as people like to think, more that it's evolved others ideas and tried to better them.

Quote:

2 -Sachs were first to make freehubs.
3 - Dual pivot brakes were first done by Altenburger.
4 - STI and Ergopower came out around the same time actually.
6 - Cinelli made the first clipless pedal, but look made them as we know now.
7 - Mavic had an electronic gruppo on the market in the 90's, I'm sure Boardman road it in the TdF, and Campag had one in the pro ranks for a good while.
8 - who cares about those anyway.
9 - is just a disc brake in general, pioneered by someone else.

2: Not Campag then.
3: Not Campag then.
4: Shimano actually.
6: Not Campag then.
7: Not Campag then.
8: More important than you can imagine...
9: Not Campag then.