Giro d'Italia Stage 9: Paolo Tiralongo wins from break as Astana show strength again

ianrobo wrote:

Andrew Hood @EuroHoody

Mick Rogers said this Giro so far has been the hardest GT he's raced since he's started using SRM in terms of power output

Maybe Mick needs to hunt down some of his favoured 'contaminated meat' then so he can get back to his best. He's as dodgy as anyone.

Astana are blatantly filthy at this Giro, Sky and Tinkoff-Saxo are a tier below but still extremely dubious. Whatever, enjoy the racing and hope the dirty get popped. It's been a great race so far.

ninj4fly wrote:

When Sky are dominating (2012, 2013) - it's not suspicious, now when other teams do, it's. And please do not start with the Iglinski brothers and Vino, 2012's Sky team was full of rotten apples as well. Enjoy the racing which is always exiting at the Giro and hope the cheats (if any) get caught.

Ok, so you want people to ignore the Astana riders who were caught, red handed, doped to the tits whilst applying extra scrutiny to Sky riders you've dismissed as 'bad apples' based on (at a guess) internet rumours in a direct comparison between between Astana and Sky?

Seems a slightly flawed argument.

Just to nip the predictable arguments in the bud:

1) I'm not British.
2) I'm not in any way a Sky 'fan boy'.

Yes the team look exceptional and Nibali's chances for July look very good indeed.

Exciting Giro so far, really enjoying it

ninj4fly wrote:

When Sky are dominating (2012, 2013) - it's not suspicious, now when other teams do, it's. And please do not start with the Iglinski brothers and Vino

Can't agree with this logic, however - it's perfectly valid to be suspicious about a team with their recent record and management - sure, no team should be beyond suspicion but there's a clear difference in record, attitude and anti doping stance between these two teams - one which applies their own strict rules, often to their own detriment,.another which sails very close to the wind indeed.

..besides, there's plenty of people out there prepared to be suspicious of Sky and call them on any perceived transgression, given their public commitments on the subject of doping.

I couldn't help chuckling at the sight of Aru's domestique having a go at Porte, Sky's leader, for not taking a turn in the chasing group of GC contenders, meanwhile another Astana rider is up the road winning the stage! Perhaps even Porte was struggling with that pace, but regardless, why should he contribute when two of the four riders are Astana?!

You have to admit the team look amazingly strong and whilst I really hope it's genuine, suspicion is understandable

ninj4fly wrote:

When Sky are dominating (2012, 2013) - it's not suspicious, now when other teams do, it's. And please do not start with the Iglinski brothers and Vino, 2012's Sky team was full of rotten apples as well. Enjoy the racing which is always exiting at the Giro and hope the cheats (if any) get caught.

You also have to look at the language being used in the press, which has long been an indication of what was known but not said.

Do you think Greg Henderson just decided one day to tweet about Aru, or is it more likely to be something commonly discussed and acknowledged in the peloton and he just let it slip at the wrong time?

The riders themselves have a pretty damn good idea of who is clean and who is juiced, and they pass that on to the journalists in off-the-record ways.

That filters through into a code if you look hard enough, between the lines.

Adjectives like unbelievable, incredible, extra-terrestrial, superhuman in describing strength or team performance are the journo ways of telling us that doping is going on without explicitly saying it.

ninj4fly wrote:

When Sky are dominating (2012, 2013) - it's not suspicious, now when other teams do, it's. And please do not start with the Iglinski brothers and Vino, 2012's Sky team was full of rotten apples as well. Enjoy the racing which is always exiting at the Giro and hope the cheats (if any) get caught.

I started a thread asking are we right to be sceptical of Sky ....

As Chris says if we take Garmin to be clean they can barely compete now. I saw a comment last night that the Giro is once again showing a two speed peloton, that should be the real worrying sign.

Older riders now being better than they were 10 years ago should really be a concern for all of us.

ianrobo wrote:

ninj4fly wrote:

When Sky are dominating (2012, 2013) - it's not suspicious, now when other teams do, it's. And please do not start with the Iglinski brothers and Vino, 2012's Sky team was full of rotten apples as well. Enjoy the racing which is always exiting at the Giro and hope the cheats (if any) get caught.

I started a thread asking are we right to be sceptical of Sky ....

Yes you did. For me, this comment of yours at the time sums up the belief system you seem to employ quite nicely

ianrobo wrote:

I trust no one in the pro peloton, I would not say anyone is clean at all.

Not anyone, not one. That's a little stronger than a healthy, and certainly justified, skepticism about some of the riders and teams we see each year. We all know there's still doping going but I prefer going to way of investigation of performances and teams - riders and others - on demand, in depth and protracted, listening to the subtle (and not so subtle) descriptions from those in and connected to the peloton as has been mentioned and applying strong sanctions to those found to transgress - starting from a position of saying everybody is guilty and then scrabbling for square evidence to bash into round holes to try and support that doesn't really advance matters IMO.